Epi Valve Junior - COMBO Metal Samples

[TelePaul]

I think of it like this. There are a shit load of amps out there. When you start reading about how their designed and what makes one sound different than the others, you start to see that most of them are based on the same old designs. One of the biggest influences on an amps sound is it's preamp and tone stack sections. The front end of the amp is what gets amplified. If you slap a colored pedal in front, that is what's getting amplified. No doubt about it, the power section and speakers are influencing the sound too but probably not as much as the front end.

I say if you like what you got, cool. Rock on man.

Yep I know what you're saying dude. And again, I bought the amp because I could afford it...maybe some day I'll be able to afford more impressive stuff, but tis a cool lil amp to have indeed. I have to try record more stuff with it...

 

[travelin travis]

Yep I know what you're saying dude. And again, I bought the amp because I could afford it...maybe some day I'll be able to afford more impressive stuff, but tis a cool lil amp to have indeed. I have to try record more stuff with it...

I honestly can't think of another amp that I'd spend my money on in the valve junior's price range. I think you definitely made the most of the money.

 

[jonnyc]

Tele, Amra wasn't saying that an amp doesn't affect the sound you'll get when using a distortion pedal. What he's saying is that a pedal like the DS2 is very colored. I've used one and I agree. Connect it to any amp and it's character will dominate the overall sound you get. The amp and speakers will have some say in the matter too but a DS2 will leave it's mark all over the place. That's what it does.

Yeah he kinda was man. He said an amp will make very little difference to the sound of the pedal. Just as an example of how an amp will make a difference, awhile back I posted a clip of a VJ being pushed by a MetalZone. Nearly everyone here and especially at gearslutz.com, that listened to the clip and responded to it claimed it was really the first time they had heard that pedal and liked it. In fact a few people at GS went out and bought a metalzone and VJ soley based off my clip. Now I've plugged that pedal into every amp I have, and I have some good ones, and none came out sounding as good as the VJ. Yes the overall sound may be coming from the pedal but the amp adds a very important characteristic to the sound of the pedal, thus creating sonic bliss. Now lets get back to how bad ass this little amp is.

 

[Outlaws]

*None of this is to say pedals are bad or inferior*

I would like to chime in on this Pedal Sound VS Amp Sound because IMO everyone so far seems to be wrong to some degree.

IMO, yes, a distortion pedal will leave a distinct sound on an amp more-so than the amp itself, simply because the amp is more than likely going to be relatively clean when you use a distortion pedal. The amp might darken it or brighten it, but it will be the pedal making "the sound".

An overdrive would be an amp that is already being driven hard and the pedal drives it harder, so more of the amp is coming through. That doesn't mean the OD pedal won't impart some characteristics though. That is not to say a distortion pedal can't be used to drive an amp hard like an OD, but if anyone has ever distorted a distorted signal, its not going to display a good example of either distortion source. It might sound raunchy and badass, but neither will be well represented as the major source of "the sound".

None of this says that the amp doesn't matter, but unless the amp is distorting, then it is the less crucial part in measuring the base of "the sound". I know people are saying a tube amp on clean with a pedal will sound different than a JC120 on clean with the same pedal. It will. But it won't remove the pedals characteristics and the distortion (not the tone) will be the same because the pedal is what is creating it. The tube amp may roll off some of the high end, but you will still be able to tell they are the same pedal, and the pedal would be 80% of the sound.

A tube amp on the verge of break up will generally sound better with most distortion pedals than a clean solidstate amp to a lot of people, and that is why Jimi and others got such great tone from a simple FuzzFace. But that doesn't mean the FuzzFace wasn't the key to the sound.

Did that make any sense?

 

[travelin travis]

Makes sense to me.

 

[marshall409]

cant we all just get along?

if ive learned a lesson from these guitar forums, its this.

you plug something into something, and it sounds good or it doesnt. whats the big deal?

im surprised that argument went on for as long as it did. it started to look like a ultimate guitar forum thread in here

Adam

 

[TelePaul]

if ive learned a lesson from these guitar forums, its this.

you plug something into something, and it sounds good or it doesnt. whats the big deal?

im surprised that argument went on for as long as it did. it started to look like a ultimate guitar forum thread in here

Adam

Hey Marshall! It was a real good argument, and it stayed civil, which was cool. Guitars and Basses forum never lets things get too outta hand.

 

[mike2731]

Don't know much at all about metal....but Kirk Hammet uses a Tubescreamer and Hetfield uses a ProCo Rat Distortion for Kill 'em All.

Glen drover uses a Digitech Series Tone Driver Overdrive Pedal.

Zakk Wylde uses a Boss SD 1.

Randy Rhodes used an MXR Distortion Plus pedal.

Like I said, I know nothing about metal. But what you said is obviously a bit far off the mark.

While I don't really agree with the original statement about the amp not making any difference, in fairness, the guys you list here do in fact use the pedals to boost the signal into their amps. Their distortion tone is not solely from the pedal by itself, but a combination of the pedal into the amp. You're hearing mostly the amp sound, with the pedal adding some coloration and/or extra drive. You really don't need to use a lot of the gain from those pedals when running them into a good sounding tube amp made for rock/metal. I've used an Ibanez Tube Screamer TS-10 for nearly 20 years to do the same.

Now, I'll let it up to you guys to debate whether it's a simulated sound, amp sound, tube sound, etc. Just adding my experience with these kind of tones. All I know is my sound would not be the same without either component.

Was the DS-2 running through the clean on the Epi, or was it running into a dirty sound?

 

[TelePaul]

Was the DS-2 running through the clean on the Epi, or was it running into a dirty sound?

Not sure....probably clean though. I did use two 'distortion' pedals.

 

[mike2731]

Not sure....probably clean though. I did use two 'distortion' pedals.

I'd be interested to hear some clips of the Epi being used dirty with an OD pedal in front of it to push it a little. I'm sure it probably won't be "metal" like using a Mesa Boogie, but you could probably find some really nice and interesting tones with it!

 

[amra]

I just posted some metal samples a couple of weeks back, of an Epi Valve Junior doing metal using an overdrive to push it. I turned the pedal off and on so you can hear that the pedal is just boosting the level, not making the distortion. The distortion is the VJ's own sound.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=226736

 

[TelePaul]

I just posted some metal samples a couple of weeks back, of an Epi Valve Junior doing metal using an overdrive to push it. I turned the pedal off and on so you can hear that the pedal is just boosting the level, not making the distortion. The distortion is the VJ's own sound.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=226736

Yah that was what inpired me, they're with the head right?

 

[amra]

Yea, it was the head version with a 4x12 cab with celestions....

 

[mike2731]

I just posted some metal samples a couple of weeks back, of an Epi Valve Junior doing metal using an overdrive to push it. I turned the pedal off and on so you can hear that the pedal is just boosting the level, not making the distortion. The distortion is the VJ's own sound.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=226736

I did listen to those. There were some really nice classic rock tones there that I liked. I don't really consider them metal tones, but everyone has a different opinion on what "metal" is anyway. Doesn't really matter what you call it, good tones are good tones. they might not fit every situation or genre of music, but it doesn't make them sound any less great.

It really is amazing what a well-used OD pedal can do for your tone, though.

 

[TelePaul]

Yea, it was the head version with a 4x12 cab with celestions....

yeah yeah I checked em out, cool stuff. I kinda wanted to show the combo off a bit, but I probably should've recorded it with the gain up and straight in.

 

[TelePaul]

It really is amazing what a well-used OD pedal can do for your tone, though.

Oh for sure man!

 

[amra]

Yea I hear you about the metal. Different people consider different things metal.

Down is definitely metal, though - it has Phil Anselmo from Pantera, Pepper Keenan (corrosion of conformity), Kirk Windenstein from Crowbar - there were a couple of riffs from their stuff, There was also a clip of a Black Label Society riff/tone, and BLS is damn sure metal. Although sometimes they do get kind of southern rock-ish, so I do see your point.

Maybe you were thinking more black metal/death metal. I am not real sure if you can get a tone like that out of a stock VJ and an overdrive pedal. There are some mods you can do pretty cheaply though, that might get you into that neighborhood with an OD only. Now I would love to hear someone that has a modded VJ that can get that kind of sound. That would be cool...

 

[mike2731]

Yea I hear you about the metal. Different people consider different things metal.

Down is definitely metal, though - it has Phil Anselmo from Pantera, Pepper Keenan (corrosion of conformity), Kirk Windenstein from Crowbar - there were a couple of riffs from their stuff, There was also a clip of a Black Label Society riff/tone, and BLS is damn sure metal. Although sometimes they do get kind of southern rock-ish, so I do see your point.

Maybe you were thinking more black metal/death metal. I am not real sure if you can get a tone like that out of a stock VJ and an overdrive pedal. There are some mods you can do pretty cheaply though, that might get you into that neighborhood with an OD only. Now I would love to hear someone that has a modded VJ that can get that kind of sound. That would be cool...

I know the sounds you do get sound pretty damn good for an amp that only costs $100!! I mean, for that price, who wouldn't want one laying around the studio? I think I've spent more money on cables!

 

[Lt. Bob]

I know the sounds you do get sound pretty damn good for an amp that only costs $100!! I mean, for that price, who wouldn't want one laying around the studio? I think I've spent more money on cables!

I've said many times that anyone that has a use for a tube amp should just run out and buy one.
It won't do everything but it'll do plenty and it's built like a tank.

 

[32-20-Blues]

I've said many times that anyone that has a use for a tube amp should just run out and buy one.
It won't do everything but it'll do plenty and it's built like a tank.

Yep, built like a brick shithouse.

And, with a tremelo pedal and an eq, I can make mine sound like a bagpipe.

Which, when you play electric Irish trad, is a good thing.