Epi Valve Junior - COMBO Metal Samples

[amra]

Yea, you use an overdrive to push and amp into overdrive.
That's how it's done.

32-20-Blues said: "if you believe you can get the distortion required for heavy-metal out of simply pushing a valve amp into overdrive, you're just wrong". Bullshit. You push a valve amp into overdrive using an overdrive pedal. That's what they do. Then you hear the distortion from the amp.

Using a distortion pedal is completely different. It doesn't push the amp into overdrive, it makes simulated distortion using it's own circuit. BIG friggin' difference. Not many famous artists use distortion pedals and "simulate" distortion.

 

[32-20-Blues]

Man, using an overdrive pedal is still simulation. You're simulating gain. End result? A distortion that doesn't arise solely from the amp...a fact that is enough to call it 'simulated.'

 

[TelePaul]

That's EXACTLY how you get the distortion required for heavy metal. Holy shit. Where is everyone that is sane? Where is metalhead and the other guys who know how to get good tone?

Don't know much at all about metal....but Kirk Hammet uses a Tubescreamer and Hetfield uses a ProCo Rat Distortion for Kill 'em All.

Glen drover uses a Digitech Series Tone Driver Overdrive Pedal.

Zakk Wylde uses a Boss SD 1.

Randy Rhodes used an MXR Distortion Plus pedal.

Like I said, I know nothing about metal. But what you said is obviously a bit far off the mark.

 

[TelePaul]

Using a distortion pedal is completely different. It doesn't push the amp into overdrive, it makes simulated distortion using it's own circuit. BIG friggin' difference. Not many famous artists use distortion pedals and "simulate" distortion.

You keep saying that last bit about famous artists...but its bullshit man, I already posted the list! And Distortion/OD/Fuzz all have the same effect on a signal, i.e forcing it to clip. It's the extent of the clip (which you can represent graphically, I'll take a look for the graph in a sec) that determines the 'grit' behind the sound.

Seriosuly man, if you think that sound is just the DS 2, plug into a DS 2 and play through your home stereo.

 

[32-20-Blues]

Fuck it, I'm still waiting for the list of metal players that plug straight into a valve amp........

 

[TelePaul]

Fuck it, I'm still waiting for the list of metal players that plug straight into a valve amp........

I researched it a bit. Straight in in the strict sense?? None.

The rest are a mix of variable EQ effects, some use Pete Cornish effects set-ups, JMP1 pre-amps, modulation effects, and, relevant to this thread, distortion and Overdrives.

 

[travelin travis]

I'm with Amra on this. A pedal like a DS2 is very colored. It's going to dominate the your tone no matter what amp you plug it into. It's a distortion pedal. That's what it does.

An overdrive pedal is used to push an amp into...........overdrive . Guitar players spend big bucks on transparent overdrive pedals so that the tone of the amp is preserved. I thought the idea of spending $400 on an overdrive was fucking insane until someone showed me the light. If you have an amp with a really beautiful character, you don't want your overdrive pedal fucking it up.

I personally (now this is subjective ) don't like the sound of the valve junior in it's stock form. It sounds boxy with a loose bottom and doesn't have alot of detail. Tele, what you're getting is more the sound of the distortion pedal and not so much the amp. Believe me man, when you hear an amp that overdrives nice while cranked, you'll know it.

 

[TelePaul]

I personally (now this is subjective ) don't like the sound of the valve junior in it's stock form. It sounds boxy with a loose bottom and doesn't have alot of detail. Tele, what you're getting is more the sound of the distortion pedal and not so much the amp. Believe me man, when you hear an amp that overdrives nice while cranked, you'll know it.

Hey Travis! Well part of this was to see how the combo takes pedals. I know the distortion pedal is going to colour the sound, but I don't really agree with how it can override the amps natural sound with it's one variable tone control. If the sound was just the distortion pedal....well, wouldn't that discount integral parts of an amp like a speaker? Like a pre-amp section? Or like Jonny said, the wiring?

It seems that what you guys are kinda getting at is that I could have got that sound with the DS2 between my guitar and a line-in on my interface, or if you wanted to involve a speaker, like I siad, through your home stereo.

Maybe this argument is more focused around what aspects of an amp impact tone.

 

[travelin travis]

Let me ask you this Tele. Does the valve junior sound really nice without any pedals, in your opinion?

 

[Lt. Bob]

I don't really agree with that, it would sound SLIGHTLY different....

You could take a low end 35 watt crate amp, set to comlpetely clean and a little tube amp set to completely clean, and use the same pedal and get pretty much the same sound. Any noticable difference would be attributable more to the speaker and the design of the cab than the differences in clean channels.

I don't really agree with that. Different amps can really react very differently as far as how well they take to pedals. The Epi does really well with most pedals ..... I have an Ampeg ReverbRockett that doesn't sound very good with any pedals.
And that Epi will break up so early that these clips are really gonna be a combination of the Epi and the pedal ..... the Epi actually doesn't have what I'd call a 'clean' channel.

 

[TelePaul]

And that Epi will break up so early that these clips are really gonna be a combination of the Epi and the pedal ..... the Epi actually doesn't have what I'd call a 'clean' channel.

Yeah you're right Bob, the clean ouput you get out of it is almost non-existent. Whatd you make of the clip anyways?

 

[32-20-Blues]

Let me ask you this Tele. Does the valve junior sound really nice without any pedals, in your opinion?

I have one. Yes, it sounds nice for what I want from it - (strat put straight into it), but a little limited.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Yea, you use an overdrive to push and amp into overdrive.
That's how it's done.

32-20-Blues said: "if you believe you can get the distortion required for heavy-metal out of simply pushing a valve amp into overdrive, you're just wrong". Bullshit. You push a valve amp into overdrive using an overdrive pedal. That's what they do. Then you hear the distortion from the amp.

Using a distortion pedal is completely different. It doesn't push the amp into overdrive, it makes simulated distortion using it's own circuit. BIG friggin' difference. Not many famous artists use distortion pedals and "simulate" distortion.

That's not really true.
Overdrive pedals are just a distortion pedal that has it's sound designed to sound like overdriven tubes ....... but they do not necessarily push the amp into overdrive. They're called overdrive 'cause that's the sound they're trying to recreate.
They can, if you crank the output high enough but that's not specifically what they are designed to do ..... they are just a type of distortion pedal.

 

[TelePaul]

Let me ask you this Tele. Does the valve junior sound really nice without any pedals, in your opinion?

Needs an EQ for most of the stuff I use it for. I don't play metal, if that's what you're askin, that was a friedn of mine playing that sample.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Yeah you're right Bob, the clean ouput you get out of it is almost non-existent. Whatd you make of the clip anyways?

I thought it sounded really nice ...... and I know the Epi had to have something to do with it 'cause generally I loath the sound of the DS-2 but this was a lot richer and much less of the buzzy sound that I think of when I think of that pedal.

 

[travelin travis]

Tele, Amra wasn't saying that an amp doesn't affect the sound you'll get when using a distortion pedal. What he's saying is that a pedal like the DS2 is very colored. I've used one and I agree. Connect it to any amp and it's character will dominate the overall sound you get. The amp and speakers will have some say in the matter too but a DS2 will leave it's mark all over the place. That's what it does.

 

[travelin travis]

I thought it sounded really nice ...... and I know the Epi had to have something to do with it 'cause generally I loath the sound of the DS-2 but this was a lot richer and much less of the buzzy sound that I think of when I think of that pedal.

I'm sure the amp is smoothing out that buzz saw gain from the pedal too but it doesn't sound like a nice cranked up tube amp to my ears. I'm not saying it sounds bad but it is what it is.

 

[TelePaul]

I'm sure the amp is smoothing out that buzz saw gain from the pedal too but it doesn't sound like a nice cranked up tube amp to my ears. I'm not saying it sounds bad but it is what it is.

That kinda assumes that the one purpose of this amp is that it is to be used as a cranked up tube amp. Seriously, if I wanted dedicated metal, I'd hold out for a JCM 800 or something like that.

 

[TelePaul]

Tele, Amra wasn't saying that an amp doesn't affect the sound you'll get when using a distortion pedal. What he's saying is that a pedal like the DS2 is very colored. I've used one and I agree. Connect it to any amp and it's character will dominate the overall sound you get. The amp and speakers will have some say in the matter too but a DS2 will leave it's mark all over the place. That's what it does.

Yeah, that's cool, I know what you're saying. But I think it's just one aspect of the signal, I wouldn't be quick to over or under-emphasise it's impact. I mean lets not lose focus; it's not going to sound like a 4 x 12 80's Marshall. Because it's not that. Still, I think it did quite well for the money.

 

[travelin travis]

I think of it like this. There are a shit load of amps out there. When you start reading about how their designed and what makes one sound different than the others, you start to see that most of them are based on the same old designs. One of the biggest influences on an amps sound is it's preamp and tone stack sections. The front end of the amp is what gets amplified. If you slap a colored pedal in front, that is what's getting amplified. No doubt about it, the power section and speakers are influencing the sound too but probably not as much as the front end.

I say if you like what you got, cool. Rock on man.