emergency micing puzzle

[franklloydwrong]

so my mxl 604's didn't show up today, and i have a recording gig in 11 hours (a friend's band, but i want it to sound as good as possible). i am recording drums and guitar at the same time, then overdubbing vox, bass and keys. the drums are a four piece kit (one rack tom) with crash, hihats, ride. the guitar is a fender telecaster through a solid state 2-12 fender amp (not sure of the model). i don't have a music store within 50 miles, or money to buy more mics, so what do you think would be the best way to record just the drums and guitar at the same time with these microphones:
Rode NT-1
Audio Technica Kit Pack (2 snare/tom mics, 2 kick/tom mics)
Shure SM57
Shure SM58
Shure 548SD Unidyne IV
Shure BG 1.1
2 Radio Shack cardioid dynamics
1 Radio Shack Omni dynamic (pretty low noise considering)

the room is 25x15 feet with 8 foot ceilings and hardwood floor. as far as style, i haven't heard their music yet, but i would say probably indie rock with some wilco and primus influence. any advice would be greatly appreciated. i just really want someone to say that it wont be a wasted day. thanks in advance.
regards. frank

 

[isfahani]

hmnnnnn... I'd use the Rode for a kick drum mic, and then the radio shack cardioid's in the Glyn Johns method.

AT mics on snare but underneath it IF you can reverse the polarity, the OH mics are already getting the top of the snare. Mic the toms if you feel you need to and mic the guitar amp with the 57 and the unidyne and pick the best sounding one later. If you have enough tracks I'd also put that omni 3 feet away from the guitar amp, isolated from the drumkit, or not.

You didn't say how many tracks though.

 

[franklloydwrong]

i have 12 inputs, so more ins than mics. thanks for the reply. after reading more about this, a lot of people talk about trying to record the vocals live too, which i guess would be okay, because i'd still have the 58 open. as far as flipping the phase on the under snare mic, i can only do that in mixing, unless i use my art tube mp (which i don't want to do). would it be the same recording it out of phase and flipping it in pro tools?

 

[tmix]

Frank,
I think if it were me I'd use the AT kit package for the drums.
I'd use the Rode for an overhead or front of kit mic (about 2 foot in front where it will catch some kick and the whole kit) although it is liable to be pretty bright, but you can work with pointing it slightly downward to let the cymbals be a little off the focus of the mic.

I'd then use a 57 on the amp and use the 58 for a scratch vocal.

I'd be careful with the singing in the same room, maybe have them sing soft for song position only.
You don't say whether you have an iso booth so I assume not.
And yes flipping an under side mic in Protools is the same a reversing it before recording.

Good luck!

 

[Obi-Wan zenabI]

I only have ever used 604's on OH, but my instincts tell me to put the Rode up above the kit for OH, and maybe throw some of the cheapie dynamics on the ride and hats-- you should have a decent stereo spread that way. This is only if you trust those radio shack dynamics-- are they the super-cheap RS stuff or just the regular cheap?

I am anti-drum-mic-kit after my positive experiences with oh's, but then I've only ever really recorded jazz. For me, Simplicity equals clarity. Tmix is maybe the better person to listen to. The front of kit idea sounds good to me, but I'd want the cymbals in the OH-- my drummer is 67 and a light hitting jazzer. The Rode on kick sounds bizarre to me given your list and given that I really haven't *ever* read anything about using an LDC on kick.

I was reading in Sound on Sound that they did three drum kits for this one part in Pirates of the Carribbean part 13 or whatever, and had a single good LDC as OH on each of the three.

And +1 on 57 on the guitar cab. Snare should be fine with something from your drum mic pak. Get the guitar amp isolated... build a 'fort' out of blankets and charis and crap etc.



Good Luck! But don't stress, and don't make excuses about not having the mxl's-- just go confidently with what you have and enjoy the session with your friends.

 

[tmix]

I am with OBI on generally using the Glyns Johns method of micing drums.
I prefer the clarity of NOT using close mics.

My suggestion for close micing is really due to the compromise of isolation since you are recording guitar (and maybe vocal) in the same room. Hense also using the rode as a front of kit mic with the backside facing the amp. It will provide a little more iso.
By flipping the polarity of the guitar amp mic back and forth you might get lucky and find a polarity that actually cancels some of the guitar sound in the drums and drum sounds in the guitar.

Have fun Dude!
I have made many good recordings with a whole lot less than what you have!

 

[Track Rat]

With the mics you have, I'd put one of the AT's in the kick, one tight on the rack tom, one tight on the floor tom, obviously one tight on the snare and the Rode as a mono overhead about two and a half drum stick lengths above the snare pointed at the snare (you'll have to experiment a bit with the Rode, depending on how the player hits to get a good balance to taste). A 57 in front of the amp and you're good to go. And if you want a scratch vocal, use a 58. You'd still have the option to come back and use your Rode for the vocal after the fact. Bass could go direct. The problem I find with minimal miking on drums is that a LOT of drummers can't balance their own sound so toms can sound weak. The overhead, kick and snare mics should make up the bulk of the drum sound with the tight mics on the toms making up the difference if you need to. YMMV.

 

[Obi-Wan zenabI]

With the mics you have, I'd put one of the AT's in the kick, one tight on the rack tom, one tight on the floor tom, obviously one tight on the snare and the Rode as a mono overhead about two and a half drum stick lengths above the snare pointed at the snare (you'll have to experiment a bit with the Rode, depending on how the player hits to get a good balance to taste). A 57 in front of the amp and you're good to go. And if you want a scratch vocal, use a 58. You'd still have the option to come back and use your Rode for the vocal after the fact. Bass could go direct. The problem I find with minimal miking on drums is that a LOT of drummers can't balance their own sound so toms can sound weak. The overhead, kick and snare mics should make up the bulk of the drum sound with the tight mics on the toms making up the difference if you need to. YMMV.

TR- isn't the 2.5 stick distance mainly important only when you're doing stereo 'recorderman' style OH? I would think that it'd be more important balancing the crash and rack tom volume with the snare, since they'd be closest to the central mono OH. I'm no expert-- just asking.

 

[Track Rat]

True. It's more for phase coherency with stereo overheads but I've found it to be a good rule of thumb even with a mono overhead (if you have 8" ceilings like most of us poor folks).

 

[Richard Monroe]

I'm with Tmix and Track Rat. I came to essentially the same conclusion before I read their posts. NT1a overhead, use the AT mics for what they were intended for, and the 57 on the amp. I would consider also using the 58 on the back of the combo amp, reversing the phase on one of them, if it is an open back amp. If it is a closed back amp, I wouldn't bother with a second mic, but a lot of open back combos blow tons of bass out of the back. You can use almost anything for a scratch vocal. Good luck-Richie

 

[Obi-Wan zenabI]

True. It's more for phase coherency with stereo overheads but I've found it to be a good rule of thumb even with a mono overhead (if you have 8" ceilings like most of us poor folks).

7'2"

I usually modify it, measuring with a string or mic cable, so that the ride cymbal side mic has my drummer's head between the mic and the hats. Basically over his right shoulder. The distance varies, but it's in the neighborhood of 2.5 sticks.