Elliot Smithish number...

  • Thread starter Thread starter PapillonIrl
  • Start date Start date
Well, the first thing i noticed is that the acoustic guitars are a little boomy. I know you want to make it sound nice and full, but sometimes you've just got to cut some of the low end out. Mic position can help a LOT as far as this goes, too. Actually, I'm listening to it now, and that third acoustic thats panned center has a nice sound to it - maybe a little verby. Was that mic'ed differently? I like the vocals. The lead could be pushed up a little in the mix and is maybe a little wet. I like the harmonies the way they are. Cool stuff.
 
my girlfriend loves Elliot Smith, so we had to check this one out...the guitars sound very nice...didn't sound boomy at all on my system...i have 2 10" Cerwin Vega home stereo speakers..the vocals are very nice, i especially like the background vocals, nice panning job..i wouldn't change a thing...was that some Flamenco style guitar playing? hehe...great solo at 2:30...my girlfriend gives it 2 thumbs up...i give it 1 thumb up and a hand holding a beer, cheers mate.

if you have time, come check me out at

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/2/1265/singles.shtml

take care..keep it coming
 
Thanks for the opinions, lads...I think the boominess you're refering to is on the low G and F# in the main chord sequence ( the last two bass notes in the sequence ), or do you reckon all of it is too boomy ( bear in mind that there will probably be no bass instuments put in this song )? I'll check it again with the subs from our live system connected up when I get a chance.

It's interesting that you think the main vocal is too wet, I always try to stop myself going nuts with verb because I know It's a tendancy I have, have I done it again ?

Anyway cheers both, I'm glad your girlfried liked it gnarled, I will check out your stuff when I have the time (this coming week hopefully).

pAp
 
Hi, really nice work, I too find the guitars to be really boomy though. I also second the opinion about wanting the vocals much more upfront. Both harmony lines are excellent in my opinion.

About the arrangement, have you considered recording it with only one guitar track (perhaps a two microphone technique) with the additional solo? This can really let the _song_ shine through, the multiple guitars seem a little too much to me, it sounds big and full with the multiple track technique but you could try another approach sometime.

And, take it easy with the reverb, both on your voice and the guitar...

Excellent song, I just think it might come out even better with a minimalist approach to recording.

If you have the time to give your opinion, here is an acoustic song that I posted here a couple of weeks ago.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=41650

Regards,
/Henrik, Sweden
 
I like the reverb...not too much for me. The acoustics are a tad boomy like said....like ya got the mic over the soundhole....if so...move it up the neck a bit more. I don't think this type of bass suits well to fill in for a bass guitar. It just sounds like the guitar is poorly mic'd instead...albeit, not really that bad though. The bg vocs are lushious. Your vocals are well done too. The gtr boominess disappears when you move into the seque around 2:10...but then comes back when you enter the guitar solo....so, I'd say your offending string is the bottom guy when down low. The chromatic note at the end of the solo at 2:42 I suppose is technically correct...but hits me kinda weird..I'd probably edit that one out, and replace. Good way to end a song. maybe some weird percussion might add...even though you don't need a time keeper in this version.
 
valdemar: Agreed about the mic'ing technique...it's really the only explanation for why that boominess only comes in during the verse chords. I don't have the option of using two mics at the moment as the only condensor I have is a AKGC1000 which I don't really like. I am nearly through saving for a Neumann TLM-103, I may retrack the main guitar part when I get it. I have the dry vocals saved so I may try a drier version.

mixmkr: I didn't really feel that I was trying to fill in for a bass guitar, I was trying to get a naturalish full guitar sound. The cuts I would normally make to make room for the bass and bass drum I didn't make here. Actually, all these comments are making me feel I need to check my monitoring system, I have my Mackies about 6" from a wall in the middle of a room, but I think I have the freq response set for the "against the wall" setting...maybe I'm losing bass here ?


Thanks for the responses guys, valdemar I will check out your acoustic tune during the next week or so to see where your coming from with the minimalist approach.

Cheers,

pAp
 
valdemar:OK I listened to 'Rather', and I see where your coming from. I do think though, that your taste in vocal processing difffers from mine as far as reverb goes. The guitars were cleanly recorded and sounded nice(er than mine!) but the vocal style and processing were not to my taste. I liked the slide guitar idea, but the first couple of phrases were a bit flat in places. On second listening, the organ(?) sound is definately killer, extremely suited to the track. Nice harmonies especially at 2:13, well thought out. Any chance of describing your signal chain ?

pAp

gnarled, could you enable downloading so I can listen to your tune(s) ?
 
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mixmkr said:
The chromatic note at the end of the solo at 2:42 I suppose is technically correct...but hits me kinda weird..I'd probably edit that one out, and replace.
Click to expand...


I know what you mean...but I like it in a sick, twisted kind of way...other people have said the same though, including my mother and my girlfriend. :o So it may be changed yet. :)

pAp
 
I reread my last post and it came out a little too negative, hope no bad feelings.

I personally think that a compromise between your natural (but boomy) guitar sound and my over-eq'd and tiresome sound is something to strive for. I had some big problems with boominess in the recorded signal and cut it hard and wide around 170-200 Hz.

My signal chain is (was) the Marshall 603s into a Behringer 2004a mixer. Recorded with the Maxi Studio ISIS sound card. The vocals were done with a Marshall V67. The organ is a Yamaha RM1x synthesizer/sequencer which is a really good allround synth to have handy. It's geared towards sounds for electronic music but has some nice meat-and-potatoes sounds for acoustic music as well.

What are you using yourself?

Thanks for the time, regards,
/Henrik
 
valdemar said:
I reread my last post and it came out a little too negative, hope no bad feelings.

....

What are you using yourself?

Thanks for the time, regards,
/Henrik
Click to expand...

No bad feelings whatsoever, I think it's better to err on the side of being too negative rather than too positive...it helps progression.


I'm using the same mixer as yourself, which hasn't given me any trouble, but I'm really looking forward to getting some better preamps. I have a good few sennheiser dynamic drum and stage mics which I got for live use, but only one condenser so far, an AKG C1000. I record everything into a Delta 44 and Cool Edit. The only highish end equipment I have are my Mackie HR824 monitors, which I love.

Cheers,

pAp
 
Sorry to hold up perfectly good forum space with technical tidbits, but just wanted to express my envy over your monitors. I have had the KRK K-Roks for about five years and although they sound good when you get used to them, I have a very hard time doing mixes that sound as good on other systems. I have a feeling in my stomach that it's in my ears and not in my monitors, though. ;)

As for the Behringer mixer, I've just made plans to part with it, I found an Allen & Heath GS3/16 mixer for appr. USD $800 and look forward to the step up in preamp quality. After having worked with a Fostex R8 reel-to reel and a 812 mixer a couple of years back, and making the transition into the DAW world, I'm looking forward to combining the two. Now I just have to find the money to buy decent converters...

No bad feelings whatsoever, I think it's better to err on the side of being too negative rather than too positive...it helps progression.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, I feel the same way. If we'd have nothing to complain about then why aren't we selling lots of records...

/Henrik
 
PapillonIrl,

I have a bunch of elliott smith records and i like that sound. I think that you've pretty much hit it on the nail. I like the vocals and the background vox are perfect for the sound. I do think as everyone has mentioned that the guitars sound use a little clarity, but you are getting the vintage sound. I think you'll get that kinda sound with the tlm103 if you get that.

What kind of guitar are you using? I've been recently tracking acoustics and have mxl603s and a pair of ecm8000s, i would look into a pair of those to always have as a backup stereo pair for guitars. My guitar sounds horrible i think so that's why my tracks haven't been too good, but let me know what guitar you're using.

Thanks,
Brandon
 
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