Electro Harmonix 12AY7 Mic Pre?

Hey Guys,

I just have a second here. I'll post a real review later, and and acoustic guitar and singing song as well over at myspace.

Here's a copy of the email I just sent EHX:

Hello EHX,

I'm a big fan of your gear. Just yesterday, my EHX 12AY7 Mic Preamp arrived. I plugged it in an instantly heard a loud HUM. The hum is ever-persistant, regardless of pre and post gain settings. I tried new cables, moving the pre around the room, etc., all without reduction of the hum. I know tube gear can be noisy, and that EHX believes in "character over dead-silent gear." I do too. Nonetheless - that hum is loud!

I'm not talking about the bit of white noise that you hear when this thing is cranked - I can live with that. The hum I'm describing is so loud you can hear it behind a single acoustic guitar track on a recording, for example.

Is this normal? I'm not trying to blast your product here - rather, I'm wondering if I got a "bad-apple" that I need to exchange.

By the way, aside from the hum that makes this particular pre pretty much unusable for any kind of "quiet song" (like acoustic guitar and vocals), I really like the sound.

Should I send this back in exchange for a new one? Or is that really loud hum just the price one has to pay for an affordable tube-pre with great tone? I hope not!

Thank you,
Ben Logan

_________________________________________

Don't be totally turned off by the above. I'm still really impressed with the sound (again - more later). BUT, man the hum is formidable. This thing sounds like my old 70's Fender Deluxe. Great tone - lots of noise. The difference is that when you play loud through the Deluxe, the signal to noise ratio renders the buzz or hum "not a problem." With a mic pre though, as you all know, when you're recording something quiet, this kind of hum can be an issue. Especially when you're stacking track upon track.

All this said, even if I don't get a replacement that's significantly quieter, I'm still stoked I bought this thing. Tell you all about it soon. Sorry for the cliff-hanger, but I gotta go.
 
Ben,

many thanks! im excited, and worried lol
:D

let us know what the EH folks say about it!

looking forward to the soundclip and review!
 
SonicAlbert said:
Doesn't this box use an external wall wart power supply? I believe the size of the case is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

A good point. If the transformer is in a wallwart, the chassis size is irrelevant in this respect. However, a decent 12V wallwart and a voltage multiplier circuit should give you the necessary juice.

That business about the hum is a little disheartening, but I hope that is the exception and not the rule.
 
A freind told me they are going to put these in a 4 pack rack mountable set up. Anyone heard this? If so, I am waiting till they come like this. Walter
 
Ben Logan said:
Hey Guys,

I just have a second here. I'll post a real review later, and and acoustic guitar and singing song as well over at myspace.

Here's a copy of the email I just sent EHX:

Hello EHX,

I'm a big fan of your gear. Just yesterday, my EHX 12AY7 Mic Preamp arrived. I plugged it in an instantly heard a loud HUM. The hum is ever-persistant, regardless of pre and post gain settings. I tried new cables, moving the pre around the room, etc., all without reduction of the hum. I know tube gear can be noisy, and that EHX believes in "character over dead-silent gear." I do too. Nonetheless - that hum is loud!

I'm not talking about the bit of white noise that you hear when this thing is cranked - I can live with that. The hum I'm describing is so loud you can hear it behind a single acoustic guitar track on a recording, for example.

Is this normal? I'm not trying to blast your product here - rather, I'm wondering if I got a "bad-apple" that I need to exchange.

By the way, aside from the hum that makes this particular pre pretty much unusable for any kind of "quiet song" (like acoustic guitar and vocals), I really like the sound.

Should I send this back in exchange for a new one? Or is that really loud hum just the price one has to pay for an affordable tube-pre with great tone? I hope not!

Thank you,
Ben Logan

_________________________________________

Don't be totally turned off by the above. I'm still really impressed with the sound (again - more later). BUT, man the hum is formidable. This thing sounds like my old 70's Fender Deluxe. Great tone - lots of noise. The difference is that when you play loud through the Deluxe, the signal to noise ratio renders the buzz or hum "not a problem." With a mic pre though, as you all know, when you're recording something quiet, this kind of hum can be an issue. Especially when you're stacking track upon track.

All this said, even if I don't get a replacement that's significantly quieter, I'm still stoked I bought this thing. Tell you all about it soon. Sorry for the cliff-hanger, but I gotta go.
Click to expand...

Is your wall outlet grounded? I don't know how that stuff works in the states, but in the Netherlands we have wall outlets that have only the + and - lines (we use a 2 pin plug) and outlets that also have a small metal strip on the top and bottom side of the outlet/plug, which is for the ground. Both of these outlets occur every here and there, and I've had experiences with high noise/hum levels on un-grounded gear (because of an ungrounded outlet). Maybe this is your problem?
 
Halion said:
Is your wall outlet grounded? I don't know how that stuff works in the states, but in the Netherlands we have wall outlets that have only the + and - lines (we use a 2 pin plug) and outlets that also have a small metal strip on the top and bottom side of the outlet/plug, which is for the ground. Both of these outlets occur every here and there, and I've had experiences with high noise/hum levels on un-grounded gear (because of an ungrounded outlet). Maybe this is your problem?
Click to expand...

The other easy way to test this out is to take the preamp to a different location and see if you get a hum there too. Like a different building, for example. Take it to work, or a studio somewhere, or if you know a place that for certain has their power done properly. If it still hums there, then return it and get your money back on it or get a replacement unit. If an identical replacement unit hums too, then just get something else. Also, when replacing a unit for an identical one, be sure to write down the serial number of the original unit before sending it in. I had one dealer send me the original unit back as the replacement! I think it was an honest mistake, but still...
 
Halion said:
Is your wall outlet grounded? I don't know how that stuff works in the states, but in the Netherlands we have wall outlets that have only the + and - lines (we use a 2 pin plug) and outlets that also have a small metal strip on the top and bottom side of the outlet/plug, which is for the ground. Both of these outlets occur every here and there, and I've had experiences with high noise/hum levels on un-grounded gear (because of an ungrounded outlet). Maybe this is your problem?
Click to expand...

I ran into this problem recording a band in their house in a rural town. Apparently the whole town was built ungrounded.

They had these little adapter for three-prong plugs that just contact the ground prong with the screw on the faceplate of the outlet. That worked for my equipment, but their amps hummed like crazy. :(
 
Hey Everyone,

After having recorded a couple of tunes with this thing, I'll try to give you all some written impressions of the EHX pre. Anyone know where I can post some MP3's for you folks? I'm trying myspace, but it's really confusing (I seem to be the only person in the world confused by myspace...)

First, to give you an idea of what my "ears are accustomed to hearing" recording-wise, I'm used to recording with an FMR RNP. Most of what I'll have to say here is in comparison with it. Before the RNP, I owned a Mackie 1202-VLZ.

So far I've had the best luck with vocals. I've got kind of a nasally, thin voice. This thing really warms my voice up. I use a Studio Projects B3 Large Diaphram Condensor for vocals. I wasn't sure what to expect. I was hoping to at least be able to distinguish between the EHX and the RNP when I listened back to vocals. I was really pleasantly surprised by what I heard. Major difference. Vocals recorded with the RNP sound clear and tight, whereas vocals with the EHX sound warmer, more "robust" (cringe on that term), and cozy. You get a better sense of who the vocalist is as a person when you listen to vocals recorded with this thing (which is ironic, because the RNP seems to be more "accurate"). Proximity effect (bass) seems exaggerated in comparison with the RNP (which shines on the high end), but in a flattering, non-muddy way. Great stuff.

Next best application is acoustic guitar. I've got a little Taylor Big Baby. Great "airy midrange" on this guitar, but it's missing the bass. The EHX does wonders for this guitar. My personal mic of choice for this particular acoustic is an SM57 (did you guys know the Traveling Wilbury's record features acoustics recorded with SM57's?) Nice warm balanced tone with this combo. The only problem is that with a dynamic mic, the 50db of gain is barely enough. I should mention here that my EHX arrived with a broken tube. SoundSource.com (our local guitar shop, and a great one at that) was nice enough to float me a Groove Tube to replace the broken one. I don't know what this tube was "rated" - maybe an "early breakup" tube? I had to crank both the pre and post knobs, AND cozy up to the mic (6 inches) to get a good strong signal to the hard drive.

Next best is drums. When I played back the room mic signal I had recorded through the Studio Projects B3 and the EHX I was initially blown away. It sounded all "Flaming Lips." Reallly compressed (UA 1176 style) without having been ran through a compressor. It sounded explosive. I was so pumped! Then I realized shortly afterwards that the sound was really clipped - ugly breakup when I laid into the bass drum and the crash cymbal. Really harsh - like digital distortion. I know I hadn't clipped the signal to the hard drive, but I may have had the input gain set too high on the pre - I dunno cause I couldn't see the led light while playing the drums. I'm thinking with the right tinkering, this pre could sound awesome as a room mic pre for drums.

For electric guitar I mic'd up my 70's Deluxe Reverb, with 60's Mustang into an Ibanez TS9, then into the amp. I used the SM57 stuck right up against the grill. Great tone! I can't believe the difference between the RNP and this thing. The guitar tone was just so much warmer, rounder, alive, etc. The difference between the two pre's was as big as the difference between a really nice solid state guitar amp (I believe there are some good ones) and a nice tube amp. It just sounded "right" for guitar. BUT, there was the same harsh-ass digital clipping sound that I heard on the drums. Only this time I am sure I didn't clip the pre, because I was looking at the damn led. In the context of the mix, you have to be listening to hear the ugly breakup. But if you solo the track, you're thinking, "what the shit is that crackling behind this GREAT tone?" I thought it was my snare rattling in the background at first. I turned off the strainer, then rerecorded with a lower input drive and a higher output setting. Same thing, only less (and less good tone too - bummer). Again, I don't know if that groove tube is rated "high enough" for this pre. I'm new to the tube numbering system - I just recently learned tubes have ratings. Soundsource has the GT box, and it isn't stamped on the tube.

For bass I couldn't use it as a Direct Box because there is no quarter inch input (something the documentation doesn't tell you). You'll need a 1/4 inch to xlr converter cable to use this for bass Direct recording. There is a 1/4 inch out, and an xlr in and out though.

So - overall impression, even considering the "QUIRKS." Great! I'm totally stoked on this guy for the money. The HUM isn't really a problem when I listened back to a full mix with three of the seven tracks using the EHX )running the whole song through). I was pleasantly surprised there. On that note, my garage is likely NOT grounded. It's an old house and we're on the two prong system in the main house. Nonetheless, none of my other gear (like the RNP) hums like crazy. Truth be told, that hum actually kind of adds some warmth in my opinion! You can't hear it in a mix, but you can kind of "feel it." I like it!

For vocals alone it's worth the price of admission. My voice can use all the tube help it can get. Despite the lack of gain for dynamic mics, it is usuable with 57's and the lot for quiet applications (like acoustic guitar) if you crank it. Cranking it, btw, doesn't "crank the hum" - the hum stays the same regardless of volume setting.

Last thing, EHX is sending out a replacement. I even get to keep this one for the time being. I get to send it back when the new one arrives. This was my idea, since it took two and a half weeks to arrive. EHX was nice enough to agree.

Finally, I really do have to give props to my friends at soundsource.com. They really make keeping it "local" here in Chico worthwhile. These dudes are in it for the love of rock. Don't feel pressured to patronize them, just giving a compliment where it's due.

Ben
 
Great! :) Can't wait to hear some samples. I'm able to help you out on that front. You can send me all your mp3s using www.yousendit.com (check it out, explaines itself), and I'll put them on my webspace for you.
 
Ben,

friggin great! :D im happy for you...and for me!

im also as worried as i am excited lol

the hum is troubling enough, i really hope your new one doesnt give you this kind of problem...im ordering mine from the US, and its a looooong way to be sending something back cause of a possible hum :/ its kind of a risk to get things as soon as they come out right? the company may address the problems and then ship a different version, and we'll be stuck with the "chalanged" one...

im also worried about the amount of gain avaliable. :rolleyes:

how bout some samples :D
 
Ben Logan said:
Hey Everyone,

Truth be told, that hum actually kind of adds some warmth in my opinion! You can't hear it in a mix, but you can kind of "feel it." I like it!

Ben
Click to expand...

DENIAL! (said in my best aussie impression of the sharks in Nemo)
 
Ben,

what about those samples man :D

did u get your replacement yet? i would very much like to know what the folks from Electro Harmonix had to say about your hum problem..
 
So, it has a loud, ever-persistent hum regardless of settings or position, lots of noise, only 50dB of gain, arrived with a broken tube, you have to crank it to get usable levels, it automatically compresses everything as well as giving you a harsh clipping sound, the clip light appears to be inaccurate and there is no DI, yet you're still stoked about buying it?! I don't think I'd be stoked about that. In fact, I think I'd be mighty pissed.
 
nkjanssen said:
So, it has a loud, ever-persistent hum regardless of settings or position, lots of noise, only 50dB of gain, arrived with a broken tube, you have to crank it to get usable levels, it automatically compresses everything as well as giving you a harsh clipping sound, the clip light appears to be inaccurate and there is no DI, yet you're still stoked about buying it?! I don't think I'd be stoked about that. In fact, I think I'd be mighty pissed.
Click to expand...


janssen man...

its Electro Harmonix :D it doesnt matter...we still love it, for everything it is, and what it will be after a few revisions ;)

btw...i really hope every company starts jumping on this boat (true tube pre..well, at least high voltage)...what we've been witnessing so far is pretty patethic... :/ but i must admit, that Behringer 1953 suuuuure looks good :D

good god..i just comited a capital sin.
 
Holy crap! Why do I get negative rep points every time I post to this thread?! If it was you, BL, I didn't mean any offense.
 
njanssen,

i get it too...

"For being too eager, you get a negative rep point." :rolleyes:

of course its not Ben man, he's cool!

its some fuck with nothing better to do, just give him the birdie ;) it seems a thread like this gettin more than 100 replies and that these guys are not the authors of, bothers a lot of ppl. ive got shit about this thread lef and right. and it cant be the same fucking coward over and over cause u cant give reputation to the same person more than once in months or whatever..they're all fucks.

i stopped giving a fuck ha!

fuck em. :D
 
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