ECM8000 A/B Comparison

  • Thread starter Thread starter Michael Jones
  • Start date Start date
OK, I'll let you all of the hook now.
Test A was the ECM's. What I noticed about this clip was the lack of defination in the mids.
Test B Was a pair of TLM103's. Normally I get better results than that, but oh well, such is the life of a home recorder!
Both clips were recorded using Nuendo Software at 24 bit and an ART PRO MPA mic pre. I purposely recorded both clips with no EQ, just to make sure we could compare apples to apples.
Although the ECM's are Omni Directional, it seems to me that the very small diaphram size tends to accentuate this character.
I think with some more judicial mic placement, and proper EQ-ing, these mics will prove to be a very useful addition to any mic locker.

SlackMaster: Just curious, but why would I want to listen to anything other than a Walkman on a small pair of headphones?
 
Oh yeah, I was going to add one other thing. Boston Grand Pianos are typically not Bright sounding instruments, they tend to be VERY warm, unlike something say, like a Yamaha Grand, which to me, are way too Bright!
 
Michael Jones said:

Just curious, but why would I want to listen to anything other than a Walkman on a small pair of headphones?
Click to expand...


Well, if you get some good small headphones, like the $500 grado rs-1s, as a recording writer said, they are like nearfields on steroids. Of course, you have to use a good (grado)headphone amp that'll probably run you maybe $300.

You'll hear tone and balance like never before. It also accentuates any kind of noise, and what better way to judge reverb.
 
OK, well when he said small pair... I was thinking of walkman types.
I have a pair of Sennheiser HD 545 Reference Headphones, but I usually use those for vocalists to monitor the music while their doing their take.
I always heard it was a bad idea to try and mix with Headphones. Guess I'm confusing mixing with monitoring in this instance.
Thanks Jag.
 
I would be interested to hear an A/B of the ECM's and another small diameter omni if anyone has the ways and means?
 
Yeah you shouldn't *mix* with small headphones :) That's not what I meant.

Listen to your stuff in crappy walkman style headphones. You might be suprised. It's the first thing I do after I get a mix that starts to sound pretty close to complete. It's about as 180 degrees as you can get from real monitors, and can reveal of lot problems.

Using regular studio headphones is a good idea as well. They're especially nice when you're trying to make precise edits...much easier on the ears (keep the volume down), and faster.

Slackmaster 2000
 
I think it would be cool to hear this test redone with the mics repositioned. You never did say exactly how you positioned them, but they sounded really close to me.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Randy Yell said:
I would be interested to hear an A/B of the ECM's and another small diameter omni if anyone has the ways and means?
Click to expand...
I have the ECM's and a pair of Shure SM81's?
 
Ok...so how did you do place the mics?? Inside near the strings?? Just outside?? Was the lid open all the way or open at all? I would love to know. Clue me in.

Beezoboy
 
Just thought I'd mention, Michael, that the piece you're playing in this sample is beautiful. Did you write it?

Also, i just thought I'd throw in that I tried recording some vocals with my ecm8000 (Yeah, I know that's not what most people would do with those mics) and they SUCKED, at least for the song I was working on.

On the other hand, I've recorded a bit of classical guitar (a really old, really beat up yamaha) and it seemed to work pretty well. Here's an mp3 of that recording:



I know, there's a lot of noise from my computer on that track, since I didn't take the time to set up in a different room.

In any case, what I did on this recording is take full advantage of the ECM8000s lack of proximity effect by placing it all of an inch from the strings. I'm a very weak finger picker but I was still able to get a relatively open, up-front sound with this mic. I was pretty damned impressed with it. Especially for the price.
 
Beezoboy said:
Ok...so how did you do place the mics?? Inside near the strings?? Just outside?? Was the lid open all the way or open at all? I would love to know. Clue me in.

Beezoboy
Click to expand...
Beezoboy, to record this piece:
http://artists3.iuma.com/site-bin/streammp3.m3u?190193
I used a pair of TLM 103's in this way:
One was set about 15" behind the pin block and about 8" above the strings around 1-1/3 octaves below middle C. The other was about 9" behind the pin block and about 4" above the strings around 1-1/3 octaves above middle C. The mic faces were angled in about 12 degrees toward each other. The lid was in the full up position.
My TLM's run to an ART PRO MPA Tube mic pre-amp, and then into a "Nuendo" 8 i/o 24 bit A/D-D/A converter, and recorded at 24 bit in "Nuendo". I added a very slight touch of EQ after recording for a warmer presence.
The mics were slightly closer to the strings in the clips for the A/B comparison.
 
cominginsecond said:
Just thought I'd mention, Michael, that the piece you're playing in this sample is beautiful. Did you write it?

Also, i just thought I'd throw in that I tried recording some vocals with my ecm8000 (Yeah, I know that's not what most people would do with those mics) and they SUCKED, at least for the song I was working on.

On the other hand, I've recorded a bit of classical guitar (a really old, really beat up yamaha) and it seemed to work pretty well. Here's an mp3 of that recording:



I know, there's a lot of noise from my computer on that track, since I didn't take the time to set up in a different room.

In any case, what I did on this recording is take full advantage of the ECM8000s lack of proximity effect by placing it all of an inch from the strings. I'm a very weak finger picker but I was still able to get a relatively open, up-front sound with this mic. I was pretty damned impressed with it. Especially for the price.
Click to expand...
Comminginsecond: very nice piece, I never could play guitar; hurts my fingers! (music's not supposed to hurt)
The piece you were listening to on the A/B comparison is called "Now I Know". I wrote it in '94 or '95 as an assignment for a music composition class I took in college. We were supposed to illustrate the technique of modulation from a major key to its relative minor. (I just recorded the first verse) It's written in Dmaj, and modulates to Bmin. I never was real happy with it, but I pulled it out recently, dusted it off, and I'm re-visiting it; thinking I'll make some minor revisions to it and lay it down.
 
hmm

The recordings are distorted..the levels were probably way too high or something..the 2nd one is really bad, the first isn't as bad..

The first one sounds kinda canned..not a very wide stereo image..has a woody kinda old fashioned piano sound too it, woody almost..

The 2nd recording has a much more spatial stereo image to it..the piano is brighter and clearer, and sounds fuller.


--Sal
 
Re: hmm

Guardian said:
The recordings are distorted..the levels were probably way too high or something..the 2nd one is really bad, the first isn't as bad..

The first one sounds kinda canned..not a very wide stereo image..has a woody kinda old fashioned piano sound too it, woody almost..

The 2nd recording has a much more spatial stereo image to it..the piano is brighter and clearer, and sounds fuller.


--Sal
Click to expand...
Huh? Try turning your volume down. It's not hard rock, ya know?
 
I also dont really dig the sound of the yamaha grand. It sounds sweet on its own, but when you compare it to a steinway, bosendorfer, or my favorite, a malmsjo, then it begins to sound a little rubbery.

I've always prefferd the big warm sound over the crisp clear sound
 
Michael Jones said:

I have the ECM's and a pair of Shure SM81's?
Click to expand...

Michael,

I would be interested in here an A/B comparision of these mic's on piano. If you have the time.

J
 
CyanJaguar said:
I also dont really dig the sound of the yamaha grand. It sounds sweet on its own, but when you compare it to a steinway, bosendorfer, or my favorite, a malmsjo, then it begins to sound a little rubbery.

I've always prefferd the big warm sound over the crisp clear sound
Click to expand...
malmsjo, I don't know this brand, but if you put in the same company as stienway and bossendofer, I'd like to know more about it.
 
weird

I dunno why, but your mp3's are both distorting..no matter what level I have things at..maybe it's Winamp.

--Sal
 
weird

I reinstalled Winamp, and it was fixed..hm..I read the rest of the post, and I like the Neumann's better..they just have a clearer and more defined tone to them..but that could be mic placement as well, since the stereo imaging is different on both..but one is cardiod, the other omni..so that's gonna be different no matter what really.. how did you mic? XY stereo for the cardiod and spaced pair for the omni's, or did you close mic with each? The omni's aren't getting much room reflection and they do sound kinda woody, like I said, so you probably had the lid on while you were recording, and had them inside the lid?


-Sal
 
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