Dynamic Acoustic Guitar

[demensia]

I play my guitar with some dynamics... Its making it really hard to record.
I find that if I set the levels so that that the loudest parts of my playing reach between -6 and -3 db, I can barely hear the soft parts. If I turn the levels up just a little bit The signal is too hot.

I do alot of palm muting, chugging, and tapping on the body of the gutar.. The biggest problem seems to be when I slap the strings with my hand to get a tapping sound, it spikes.

I bought a compressor to resolve this problem and only this problem. I've tried everything.. Setting the threshold at -6 with a ratio of 50:1, .1 ms attack and various releases.. I can't tame the tapping of my hand against the strings. The compressor is a that cheap alesis one everyone hates. I figured it would be good enough to serve this purpose.

Am I setting the compressor wrong.. I'd like to think that after all these years, I'd at least understand basic compression teqnique.

I'm really trying to limit the output to -6db since everything over that is just tapping.

 

[scrubs]

1. record the loud and soft parts separately and mix them together

2. turn the overall volume down so that your loud parts don't peak

3. try different mic positions, including more distant miking

4. get a hard limiter

 

[sushi-mon]

I agree with distant micing. Use a good XY mic pair at a distance to catch the ambience and soften the harder stuff . You might want to forget the direct input. 50/1 compression...my God !

Have you considered better/different pick ups ?

 

[easychair]

How much gain reduction are you seeing on your compressor?

 

[demensia]

yeah, 50:1 compression.. I just want to cut the excess off, I've tried the ratio at all different rates.

The pickup sounds good, its the fishman in my taylor 410ce... its the mic that is the problem. I only have these mics.

SM81 (sdc)
AT 3035 (ldc)
Sennheiser 955 (dynamic)
SM57
SM58

I'm catching 3-4 reds on my 3630... er.. not sure what that is without looking at it.

 

[easychair]

I'm catching 3-4 reds on my 3630... er.. not sure what that is without looking at it.

Reduce your threshold to show more gain reduction on the peaks, you will be able to get your average level higher. Don't forget the make-up gain, and don't kill your dynamics entirely.

The 3630 gets kind of muddy with lots of gain reduction, don't be afraid to eq afterwards.

If you record your guitar in mono, you can use both channels, one after the other. Set one with a lower ratio for more gentle compression, like 3:1 or so, with a decent amount of reduction (red lights) and feed that into the other channel, set for it's highest ratio (limiting) to catch the peaks. Play with the thresholds and make-up gain, don't be afraid of the red lights. A combo of compression and limiting is pretty common.

 

[Robert D]

The problem with using a bunch of compression to solve this problem is that, while it may solve your problem on the meters, it probably is going to play hell with the feel of the track that you were trying to create in the first place. I think you'll get better results by using a combination of mic distance and a little performance control. If you're putting the mic close enough for proximity effect to come into play, those string thumps are really gonna jump. This may be a good aplication for the SDC over the shoulder technique, so the mic hears what you're hearing. You may also want to try putting a strap on and recording the track standing instead of sitting, so you can actually work the mic, stepping up for the quiet stuff, stepping back for the loud parts. Stay out of proximity effect range though, or the tonal change will kill the track.

Cheers,
RD

 

[soundchaser59]

If those settings you gave are not "hard limiting" then I dont know what is. Assuming you have it set for "hard knee" and "peak" and you ahve an adequate release time set. Dont set it for soft knee or rms or else it will not do what you are wanting.

And on the meter do you have the switch set to meter the input or the output? Is the switch on the rear panel set for -10 or +4? I run mine at +4 always, and so far it has done everything I've ever asked it to do.

I'm surprised you are getting any life at all in your track with the attack set at the fastest possible setting. I've never had to use an attack setting faster then 50ms to tame anything.....even a kick or a tom.

But I think Robert has good advice.....experiment with position and mic choice and technique!

 

[mshilarious]

Set the low cut on the SM81, that should help.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

IMHO you need to play the soft parts louder, and the loud parts softer. Become your own compressor.

 

[pikingrin]

The compressor is a that cheap alesis one everyone hates. I figured it would be good enough to serve this purpose.

You know, i've heard that it works better if you have two of those 3630's... and it just so happens i've got one! $10... c'mon...

 

[demensia]

I may have got it tamed by using the method I saw harvey post on usenet with the ldc.. Hanging it upside down about a foot away tilted so the diaphram is between my mouth and the guitar. I mixed that mic with an sm81 over my shoulder.. It stopped the clicking.. but I really like the close miced sound of the sm81 at the 12th fret.. I wish I could get the compressor to take care of it. I'll make sure tonight that I've got hard knee and peak... I believe it was set to hard knee and rms. I'll have to try rolling the bass off both mics too, since it was a little too muddy for my liking.. the room I'm in kinda sucks too. Its my bedroom.. The shape is completly strange, theres walls justting out in strange places, half the floor is rug, half is particle board, the cieling is just fiberglass tiles. I think thats why I like the close miced sound better.

Thanks for everyones input.

About using both channels in mono... That definatly doesn't sound like what I want to do.. its only the high pitched sound of the strings slapping the fretboard that I want to take down, I want to leave the rest of the signal untouched.

 

[giraffe]

check yout technique, recording is not the same as playing live.

aka, soft a little louder and loud a little softer.

 

[demensia]

check yout technique, recording is not the same as playing live.

aka, soft a little louder and loud a little softer.

I believe Richie just told me the same thing. Thats three votes for chill out on the guitar. I'll try it.

 

[mixsit]

I believe Richie just told me the same thing. Thats three votes for chill out on the guitar. I'll try it.

That's apt to get you the best of it. As far a comp, you could also try very slow attack and very slow to moderate release (depending of the song tempo and style). This would be trying not to catch each hot hit, but rather spend more of the time attenuated, with the release coming up as tastefully as possible only in the quieter parts. At least 100ms or greater on the attack perhaps.
Hard knee. Screw 'overeasy.
Wayne