Dumb feedback question

[fris9]

Ok so...I feel really stupid asking this, like I should know but...

I play a Les Paul Studio through a Marshall JCM 2000 50W Head and 1960 Cab. I always read about the "tube saturation" and how the best tone comes when it's fully cranked, etc....problem is, with the volume at 4-5, I can't turn up the gain more than 4-5 without serious squealing and vice versa. I can get the gain up to about 6-7, but only with the volume at 3-4. I always hear about guys playing this setup with everything turned to 10, and wonder how they do it without crazy ass feedback. Help?

 

[Rokket]

Get a longer patch chord and don't stand directly in front of it...

 

[Treeline]

Yep. You have a BIG setup. The amp's too big for the room. That's one reason why good tube amps of 10 - 12 watts are so much in demand.

 

[fris9]

Ok....although I have stood as far as 20 feet away in different directions and it still seems to happen. If I had to do it all over again I would get a smaller head, definitely.

 

[Anfontan]

Since you already have the amp setup-and I believe these guys are playing in a big club or auditorium, not in a small studio room-you may want to try to find a power attenuator for that amp head. It is in line between the amp head and the speakers, it lets the power tubes saturate and cuts down the actual voltage delivered to the speakers. I used the Power Soak with an Ampeg years ago and got great results, it gave a fat, full distortion without blowing out eardrums.

Heres a link so see what I mean also:
http://www.amptone.com/powerattenuatorfaq.htm

 

[ggunn]

Since you already have the amp setup-and I believe these guys are playing in a big club or auditorium, not in a small studio room-you may want to try to find a power attenuator for that amp head.

Another thing you might consider is a pair of THD Yellowjackets. I have them in my 50w Marshall, and it's now about 20w and still sounds great.

http://www.thdelectronics.com/products/yellow_jacket.htm

http://www.thetubestore.com/thdproducts.html

 

[heroics321]

I swear by the Weber Mass I picked up off ebay. My 30 watt amp was still getting a bit too loud, picked that up and I could finally see what my amp was capable of. I don't have to worry about the amp sounding weak because of a sound guy who won't let me crank it, also helps keep bleed to a minimum if i'm tracking along side drums. I always thought they were neat, but after using one for a while now, it's just one of those things people should have around.

 

[tom18222]

how high do you have the high's set. used to happen to me turned out i had the treble too high.

 

[hiwatt357]

Also could be microphonic tubes and/or microphonic pickups.

 

[Farview]

If it is a high pitched squeel that doesn't stop when you mute the strings, it's your pickup. It needs top be potted or replaced.

 

[ausrock]

While I can't suggest any possible cause or cure, I must say that having had a JCM 50 watt combo, then a JCM 100 watt head and quad and now a Marshall dual 100 pwr amp (through the quad) with a couple of different preamps, that this problem does sound a bit odd .

 

[JCM900]

Get yourself a Marshall power brake, it lets you run your amp at full gain and full power and still have the volume at a usable level.

 

[fris9]

I guess I never really thought about the Power Brake or attenuator whatever...that makes sense, but it still it confusing to me why it does it. I mean, does everyone who owns a marshall head and les paul have one? I tried 3 different guitars tonight just to see if it was a guitar issue. I could get a little hotter and louder with my Ibanez, but not much. I got to about 5 volume and 5 gain and the LP was squeeling. I've tried 2 different pairs of pickups in there too.. And yes, I was standing about 20 feet back behind and to the side. I'm confused I guess.

 

[Outlaws]

I guess I never really thought about the Power Brake or attenuator whatever...that makes sense, but it still it confusing to me why it does it. I mean, does everyone who owns a marshall head and les paul have one? I tried 3 different guitars tonight just to see if it was a guitar issue. I could get a little hotter and louder with my Ibanez, but not much. I got to about 5 volume and 5 gain and the LP was squeeling. I've tried 2 different pairs of pickups in there too.. And yes, I was standing about 20 feet back behind and to the side. I'm confused I guess.

20 feet isn't enough. Measure out 20 feet, its really not far at all. Plus, when people play fully cranked Marshalls they are not cranking the gain too as the gain structure at full volume doesn't require it for that smooth tone. Not to mention its really not even possible to crank both without uncontrolable feedback. But I would suggest being 10-15 yards from the amp.

A lot of people buy half stacks, and most of them don't need one.

A 40-50 watt 1 12" amp will give plenty of stage volume and be much more friendly to use. Maybe look for a single 12" cab. You might find that those extra speakers are providing a serious amount of punch that you just don't need.

 

[faderbug]

using big amps in small rooms is like driving a jet powered car in city limits.

 

[Farview]

I guess I never really thought about the Power Brake or attenuator whatever...that makes sense, but it still it confusing to me why it does it. I mean, does everyone who owns a marshall head and les paul have one? I tried 3 different guitars tonight just to see if it was a guitar issue. I could get a little hotter and louder with my Ibanez, but not much. I got to about 5 volume and 5 gain and the LP was squeeling. I've tried 2 different pairs of pickups in there too.. And yes, I was standing about 20 feet back behind and to the side. I'm confused I guess.

I used to gig with 5 full stacks. My Marshalls were from the 70's and didn't have master volumes, they were all cranked.

If it is a high pitched squeal that doesn't stop when you have your hands on the strings, your pickups are too microphonic. They need to be potted.

If it's a low howl that stops when you touch the pickup, that means the pickup is vibrating in the cavity. I stop this by taking some foam (like the foam the pickups are sold in) and putting a piece of it behind the pickup so it can't vibrate.

If it is a high squeal and happens with any guitar and doesn't change with distance or orientation to the cabinet, it is probably a microphonic tube (normally the first 12ax7). Just replace the tube.

 

[Crumbles]

I used to gig with 5 full stacks. My Marshalls were from the 70's and didn't have master volumes, they were all cranked.

If it is a high pitched squeal that doesn't stop when you have your hands on the strings, your pickups are too microphonic. They need to be potted.

If it's a low howl that stops when you touch the pickup, that means the pickup is vibrating in the cavity. I stop this by taking some foam (like the foam the pickups are sold in) and putting a piece of it behind the pickup so it can't vibrate.

If it is a high squeal and happens with any guitar and doesn't change with distance or orientation to the cabinet, it is probably a microphonic tube (normally the first 12ax7). Just replace the tube.

Don't want to jack the thread, but what if sometimes it's high pitched, sometimes low, stops when my hands are on the strings, and it's a solid state amp?

 

[Farview]

Don't want to jack the thread, but what if sometimes it's high pitched, sometimes low, stops when my hands are on the strings, and it's a solid state amp?

Then that is just your strings. You need to learn how to control your guitar when you turn up. When you aren't playing, you need to turn the volume off.

I always used Gibson style guitars (two pickups, 3 way switch, two volume controls) so I would just have the neck pickup turned way down (to get a clean sound). When i wasn't playing, I would just switch to the neck pickup.

After a while, you just learn how not to take your hands off the strings without turning the guitar off. It's just part of playing loud.