Track Rat
Just Your Average Sized Member
87.6% of all statistics are just numbers. The rest are............something else. What were we talking about?
87.6% of all statistics are just numbers. The rest are............something else. What were we talking about?
Shadow_7
New member
I tend to take a more audience POV approach. Getting some distance AWAY from the source gives you a better balance of each instrument IMO. Which is the purpose of overheads, to give that audience perspective. The spot mics are to give MORE of something that got lost in the room / mix. Or in extreme cases where the drum set just sounds bad, to help in the conversion from WAV to MID so you can sub in sounds that are an improvement over the recorded sound. Proximity to something gives you a greater balance of a sound source to most anything double or more the distance away. It can also help to take the room out of the recorded image without investing in a great room. But most times you're just compensating for the sound that IS versus the sound that you WANT.
Farview
Well-known member
That technique induces phase cancellation on purpose to mess with the tone. There is no way to get that setup phase coherent because that is the opposite of why you would use that technique.
There is no way to keep the rest of the drum out of the overheads. What you want to do is get a decent stereo image of the kit. This is why it is important to keep the overheads about the same distance from the snare. You will need to decide how you want the cymbals and the kit centered in the stereo image and put the mics where they will create that effect.
Overheads are not just cymbal mics, they pick up the whole kit. You can EQ out the low end in the mix if you want to, in order to accentuate the cymbals, but the rest of the kit will always be in there.
Farview
Well-known member
That is pretty genre dependent. Most of the hard rock and metal stuff that I do requires a larger than life drum sound that doesn't happen in the overheads. You are correct if you are doing music that has an organic sort of flavor to it, but otherwise...
R
RAMI
Guest
True. For metal, what I said probably doesn't apply. But then we're getting really genre specific. Not that it matters, but I think the method I'm describing is more universal and less genre specific. I might be wrong...it's happened before.
M
Muffin
New member
For some reason I was under the impression that overheads were primarily for cymbals, I never thought that they could add to the overall sound of the toms and snare, interesting.
Thank-you gents! I've got a lot of experimenting to do now.
Thank-you gents! I've got a lot of experimenting to do now.
M
Muffin
New member
Ok, so would a technique like that be beneficial with a 57 and a 58? Or any other mic?
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
You, as the engineer/producer, get to decide if you like the results or not.
Supercreep
Lizard People
Well, I agree that the proof is in the pudding. To that end, I (and most other recording drummers here) get consistently get good results using overheads as kit mics to pick up a stereo image. Can you offer a demonstration showing you can do the same using overheads as "cymbal mics"? I think the term "unrealistic" is better suited to a plan to record drums with condenser mics over the kit and NOT pick up toms, kick, and snare. What will any degree of dynamics post-processing do to your plan?
Also, I find it strange that you think I would consider spot mics "superfluous". The sound captured by condensers in overhead on toms, for instance, is very different from that captured by a spot mic. I find that a combination of both sounds best, with the spot mic providing body and the overheads providing stick attack. Also, since I am not the best drummer, it is good to be able to adjust the level of kick, snare and toms relative to the brass to achieve a good balance overall - because compression brings out pleasing overtones in cymbals, but also can make them too forward overall.
I'm curious to hear some of your drum tracks, boulder.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
Supercreep, we're mostly on the same page. I just thought the "one right way" approach needed a little dilution. Generally I go for normal overheads like most people.
But sometimes with a difficult kit or player I resort to "divide and conquer". That is, I go for maximum separation to allow for aggressive processing in order to get a usable drum sound. If you stand the way MySpace works these days you can go look up "Metalbillies". If you have criticism of the drum sound you should realize that it would have been worse had I used conventional overheads (which I tried).
What I meant by "superfluous" is that IF the overheads really got the sound of the kit you could do without the spot mics. But usually they don't. It really depends on the kit, the player, the situation (live, studio) and the genre. Most of the time I mix drums with the spot mics and fill in a little with the overheads. Sometimes, with a nicely tuned kit and good player. I can get a great sound with kick/snare/OH, or even just kick/OH, so any other mics would be superfluous. My main point is "it depends".
But sometimes with a difficult kit or player I resort to "divide and conquer". That is, I go for maximum separation to allow for aggressive processing in order to get a usable drum sound. If you stand the way MySpace works these days you can go look up "Metalbillies". If you have criticism of the drum sound you should realize that it would have been worse had I used conventional overheads (which I tried).
What I meant by "superfluous" is that IF the overheads really got the sound of the kit you could do without the spot mics. But usually they don't. It really depends on the kit, the player, the situation (live, studio) and the genre. Most of the time I mix drums with the spot mics and fill in a little with the overheads. Sometimes, with a nicely tuned kit and good player. I can get a great sound with kick/snare/OH, or even just kick/OH, so any other mics would be superfluous. My main point is "it depends".