Drumagog?

[ecktronic]

i just ordered drumagog last week (been wanting it for a long time) and it should come tomorrow... if i have time i might be able to do this for you for like $10 (what can i say, im a college student and in a band... i need to restock my ramen! ).

$10 for 1 track! Its cool.

Eck

 

[chessrock]

That is alot to ask for like 30 seconds of your time to render a snare track though.

There's a lot more to it than that.

First, you have to find a snare sample that's appropriate, and that fits in the context of the song, and that doesn't clash with the original snare in the overhead tracks. I may have to spend at least an hour searching through my archives to find something appropriate.

Then, if you don't want it to sound like a cheap drum machine ... you'll want to select multi-samples; i.e. a few random hard hits, and in the event there's some dynamics involved, you'll also want to select a few medium to soft. This might take another 1/2 to 1 hour, depending.

Then you're going to want to go through and make sure the replacement hits are phase-aligned with the overheads ... or else your snare will sound thin and cheap; thus negating all benefits of replacing the snare in the first place. This part could take at least 2 hours, because in most cases, you're going to have to go through each and every hit, manually, and check it. It's not just a case of lining up one track and you're done, because there is likely to be some drift with the program (where drumagag doesn't respond as fast).

I am assuming that, for this task, you would be willing to play a party for one of my over-seas friends who might be local to you ? Or that you would be able to provide them with a voucher for 5-6 hours of free tracking or mixing time?
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[BRIEFCASEMANX]

There's a lot more to it than that.

First, you have to find a snare sample that's appropriate, and that fits in the context of the song, and that doesn't clash with the original snare in the overhead tracks. I may have to spend at least an hour searching through my archives to find something appropriate.

Then, if you don't want it to sound like a cheap drum machine ... you'll want to select multi-samples; i.e. a few random hard hits, and in the event there's some dynamics involved, you'll also want to select a few medium to soft. This might take another 1/2 to 1 hour, depending.

Then you're going to want to go through and make sure the replacement hits are phase-aligned with the overheads ... or else your snare will sound thin and cheap; thus negating all benefits of replacing the snare in the first place. This part could take at least 2 hours, because in most cases, you're going to have to go through each and every hit, manually, and check it. It's not just a case of lining up one track and you're done, because there is likely to be some drift with the program (where drumagag doesn't respond as fast).

I am assuming that, for this task, you would be willing to play a party for one of my over-seas friends who might be local to you ? Or that you would be able to provide them with a voucher for 5-6 hours of free tracking or mixing time?
.

OR somebody could just use drumagog in a normal fashion, quickly find 2-3 different samples he might like, and send him wav's of those couple sample tracks, and it would take like 20 mins.

 

[chessrock]

OR somebody could just use drumagog in a normal fashion, quickly find 2-3 different samples he might like, and send him wav's of those couple sample tracks, and it would take like 20 mins.

And you'd be left with a situation where the cure would probably be worse than the disease. There are two ways of using a drum replacement program like drumagog. One of those ways happens to be the wrong way. And if that's your preference, then be my guest, but I won't be a part of it.
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[ecktronic]

There's a lot more to it than that.

First, you have to find a snare sample that's appropriate, and that fits in the context of the song, and that doesn't clash with the original snare in the overhead tracks. I may have to spend at least an hour searching through my archives to find something appropriate.

Then, if you don't want it to sound like a cheap drum machine ... you'll want to select multi-samples; i.e. a few random hard hits, and in the event there's some dynamics involved, you'll also want to select a few medium to soft. This might take another 1/2 to 1 hour, depending.

Then you're going to want to go through and make sure the replacement hits are phase-aligned with the overheads ... or else your snare will sound thin and cheap; thus negating all benefits of replacing the snare in the first place. This part could take at least 2 hours, because in most cases, you're going to have to go through each and every hit, manually, and check it. It's not just a case of lining up one track and you're done, because there is likely to be some drift with the program (where drumagag doesn't respond as fast).

I am assuming that, for this task, you would be willing to play a party for one of my over-seas friends who might be local to you ? Or that you would be able to provide them with a voucher for 5-6 hours of free tracking or mixing time?
.

DAng.
Seems it would be quiker doing it by hand then. Now all I need are some samples.

Eck

 

[ecktronic]

Heres a sample of the snare im talking about if anyone wants to air their views on the sound of it.

Eck

 

[chessrock]

That snare sounds freakin' awesome.

Don't touch it.
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[BRIEFCASEMANX]

And you'd be left with a situation where the cure would probably be worse than the disease. There are two ways of using a drum replacement program like drumagog. One of those ways happens to be the wrong way. And if that's your preference, then be my guest, but I won't be a part of it.
.

Clicking on the multisamples takes 1 second unless you are going to make a new gog out of a wav file or something. the phase alignment thing he can do himself, if he wants. He simply asked someone to sample replace his track.

I'm sure someone else can do it if he doesn't want to pay you 9,000,000 dollars or give you a gift certificate for studio time to record 12 albums.

I'm gonna guess you charge like 50 an hour, so if I went to your studio, after the time it took to track 10 songs, if I or you wanted to sample replace kick, snare, and 3 toms, how much would it cost at 5-6 hours per piece with 5 drumkit pieces in a song? 50per hour x 5 hours = 250 per drum piece x 5 pieces = 1250 per song x 10 songs = 12,500 to sample replace a drumkit on an album???? And that's before you have even STARTED mixing, and after I've paid for tracking time, and assuming that there aren't more than 10 songs. Now let's take into consideration that the toms aren't going to need as much work as the kick/snare, and you're still looking at probably 8 grand to sample replace a drum kit.

Nobody's going to pay you that much, it's ridiculous. The "phase" of the sample replaced drum isn't going to be a HUGE concern being that it's not the same signal as the one's in the overheads. At least not enough to charge a band that much to do that kind of intensive editing. It's a completely different snare with a different tone and different shaped waveform.

 

[chessrock]

Nobody's going to pay you that much, it's ridiculous. The "phase" of the sample replaced drum isn't going to be a HUGE concern being that it's not the same signal as the one's in the overheads. At least not enough to charge a band that much to do that kind of intensive editing. It's a completely different snare with a different tone and different shaped waveform.

You're actually wrong about that for the most part. Most snare samples will tend to at least have similar shapes ... and if at least the initial transient spikes don't match up between snare and overhead, then you've got a noticeably weaker attack. It's very obvious if you A/B it as you nudge the gog snare track around a few ms at a time, left and right.

Anyway, if it isn't obvious by now, I'm simply trying to make a point. And my point of this whole thing is that ... if you want someone to do something for you, first you should ask very nicely. And second of all, you should offer something in return. You should respect the amount of work you might be asking someone to go through for you.

And even if you don't have a job or an income, there has to be something you can offer that's of value, in exchange for another person's time and services. Life isn't about free handouts, and I don't have a lot respect for people who ask for them, or act like they expect them.
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[NL5]

...and if at least the initial transient spikes don't match up between snare and overhead, then you've got a noticeably weaker attack.

yep. what he said.

 

[Ford Van]

You're actually wrong about that for the most part. Most snare samples will tend to at least have similar shapes ... and if at least the initial transient spikes don't match up between snare and overhead, then you've got a noticeably weaker attack. I

Gosh, I wonder how we ever got along before digital editing?

chess, you should shutup before you look even more stupid than you do right now.

For YEARS, the initial transients of the snare in the close up mic and the overheads have been out of line concerning transients. In fact, I would say that you will get a MUCH FATTER SOUND if you DON'T line them up perfectly, but rather, make sure the relative phase relation COMPLIMENTS each other!

 

[Ford Van]

and furthermore cockrock, if you don't want to do some charity work, don't! YOU are absolutely the wrong guy on this fucking bbs to be handing out words of wisdom! You are mostly a joke of a human being.

I have done free work for MANY people on HR.com and RP.com . I don't make them beg me, nor "offer" me anything. I either want to be involved or I don't. Trust me, my time is FAR more valuable than yours in production work, and I have many more times the reasons to ask for payment than you. In fact, doing some free work might be the only fucking way anybody would ever USE your sorry ass for production work!

 

[Crumbles]

Hey Ford can you do me a favour? My knubble needs gubbling. I don't have any money to give you though.

 

[Ford Van]

You have it backwards. You pay me to gubble my knubble. As a bonus, I will let you gulp my pulp!

 

[chessrock]

Trust me, my time is FAR more valuable than yours in production work, and I have many more times the reasons to ask for payment than you. In fact, doing some free work might be the only fucking way anybody would ever USE your sorry ass for production work!

Ed, who the hell are you to talk? You've always been the biggest fraud on the board. I have yet to hear anything of significance that you've done that has anything to do with audio. Still have yet to hear a single piece / example of your work that makes me perk up and notice. Yet you seem to have given yourself quite the made-up status that I have yet to see justification for. Who the hell are you to judge anyone on this board and place yourself on some fucking production pedestal?
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[Ford Van]

LOL....man, you crack me up.

 

[ez_willis]

So, did he get the snare fixed?

If you want, I can pack up my kit, fly it to Scotland and re-track your entire album, so it has continuity. Or you could wait for some help 'round here.

 

[K.P.]

Heres a sample of the snare im talking about if anyone wants to air their views on the sound of it.

Eck

which song... all?

 

[chessrock]

LOL....man, you crack me up.

Taking your medicine like a man.

What a waste of space. I'd send a project to Walters before I'd ever let you get near it. When is Dave going to ban you again?
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[Hi_Flyer]

You couldn't find a usable sample in the 4.5 gigs worth of gog files that come with Drumagog?

no I guess I wouldn't say that I found none of that stuff "useable", I thought some of them were decent, but they didn't knock me out. Some of them just weren't well-suited to what I was working on. Also, I have been trying drumagog out mainly for kick and snare replacement, so how much of the 4.5 gigs is kik & snare samples?