Drumagog Users? Maybe you can answer my question..

K

Kapo_Polenton

New member
so after a day of trying to record with two condensers and a shure 57 on my kick, I have ended up with a total $hit sound lol. for some reason those damn condensers pick up way too much and the sm57 is picking up wayyy too much of the rest of kit even though it is 3 inches from the kick. (batter side) My room has terrible acoustics as my "studio" shares space with my washer and dryer and i think this reflects sound every which way. Some of you mentioned that you use drumagog or programs like it. I understand how it might address the tom and kick issue, but how does it handle cymbals? Will it pick up a ride on the shoulder and on the bell? how about hi hats opening and closing? Hard vs. softer hits on the crashes or chyna? I am trying to understand this so that i can make use of it when I get more mics, or if I just want to pick up some crappy little mics that can record the pulse. If anyone could let me know, I'd greatly appreciate it.

p.s- if there are restrictions on the type of mic you should use, that would be good to know as well..

Thanks!
 
It really doesn't do cymbals.

You also need each drum on a separate track in order to use Drumagog to fix anything. You can create a track for each drum, then cut up a copy of the overhead tracks to separate the drums.

Once you have the kick, snare and toms triggering right, you can high-pass the overheads and just use them as cymbal mics.
 
That's what I thought. But you could then use something like an sm57 to catch a more focused level of cymbals and hi hat correct? The kick is everyone's biggest complaint it seems.. that and toms. I think I will play around with this. Maybe throw some triggers on the toms. I've got a firepod so 8 mic lines in to play with.
 
The overheads aren't really supposed to get a focused level of cymbals and hi-hat. Unless you placed them badly, you are probably getting a good picture of what the kit sounds like.

Was the kick mic inside the kick? If it was, and you were getting that much bleed, you need to hit the kick harder.
 
No it was outside, facing the batter head with the pedals.. I would have thought that the sm57 was more directional than that but maybe it does need to be jammed inside there. I suppose the overheads can just be lowered in the mix which would take care of how prominent the cymbals are. How do you have your setup?Do you use drumagog for everything but the cymbals?
 
That's your problem with the kick. First, the beater is going away from your mic. Second, the kick gets it's volume from the shell. Third, you put the mic almost right under the snare.

If I need to use Drumagog, because of a crappy sounding kit or just for consistency, I can and have used it for everything except the cymbals. I just use Drumagog for what ever needs to be fixed.
 
I thought it might be something with the mic.. but I didn't notice any type of cut -db switch on it so I was really perplexed. That would make sense though.. I'll take off the front head and stick the stand in there so it is right up against the beater. I'll then need another few mics dedicated to the toms and snare. The only thing that confuses me then, is how to avoid the tom mics from picking up the snare or each other for that matter.
 
when you use drumagog on a track, it lets you set the sensitivity....any drum hit, or spike that crosses a certian volume will be replaced with the sample of your choise. The rest of the track will be silent. Without drumagog, you would be able to hear the snare in tom1 mic, but it wouldnt be as loud as the tom right? so if you are looking at the wav file for tom1, the tom hits would be larger than the snare hits and other tom hits. You would want to set your sensitivity so that only tom1 hits cross the line...those spikes would be replaced and nothing else would be heard for that track. then once you have done that for kick, snare, and toms, use your overhead mics to fill in the cymbals...
 
Kapo_Polenton said:
I thought it might be something with the mic.. but I didn't notice any type of cut -db switch on it so I was really perplexed. That would make sense though.. I'll take off the front head and stick the stand in there so it is right up against the beater. I'll then need another few mics dedicated to the toms and snare. The only thing that confuses me then, is how to avoid the tom mics from picking up the snare or each other for that matter.
Click to expand...
You will never get total isolation of all the different drums. That's OK, a drumset is one instrument, not a collection of individual things. You don't try to isolate individual strings on a guitar....
 
People are comlaining about the toms because they probably sound bad before you start miking them. Tuning, buying new heads and seating them properly will fix that. I used to try to trigger toms, but the samples never fully match the sound in the overheads, and since toms usually have such a dedication to the notes they are tuned to the samples never worked out, even when I tried to adjust the pitch of the samples. Now I just use drumagog to layer behind the read tracks. The solution to your problem would be to invest in nice mics, and some rockwool or rigid fiberglass, then you should try to tune the drums and make them sound good before you start recording.

Don't trigger cymbals, it just sounds like a joke.

Ben
 
I'll have to give that a go tonight. What are you guys using to deaden the room? I've got a moving blanket which I plan to put up in front of the kit (so sound doesn't bounce off the washer and dryer) and was thinking of some towels hanging over the blinds in the window right behind me?
 
Farview said:
You will never get total isolation of all the different drums. That's OK, a drumset is one instrument, not a collection of individual things. You don't try to isolate individual strings on a guitar....
Click to expand...

Excactly. You can use gates and stuff if you please. Expieriementing with placement is a fun part of recording.

I've tried drumagog and it is actually pretty fun to mess around with, but it feels like "auto tune for drums" sorta. What's really neat is getting sounds that are totally different .
 
Well for first try I got reasonable results for 3 mics but even with the 57 inside the bass drum, I still pick up a lot of snare.. I guess I can live with that but I do find that the 57 doesn't quite replicate the low end enough.. this is probably where a kick drum mic would be more useful. On a side note, if people are complaining about their kick sounding like a basketball being dribbled, ease off on the blanket or pillow pushed right up against batter head. Have it touching only along the bottom and the lower frequencies can cut through. It made a big difference..
 
If the kick mic is inside the drum and still picking up too much snare, you aren't hitting the kick drum hard enough.
 
You might have the mic pointed at the snare (and the snare pretty low). Or, you could just be expecting more isolation than is possible.

If you are having a hard time gating the kick, you aren't hitting it hard enough compared to how hard you are hitting the snare. If you can gate it, you are fine.
 
To be honest, I have not even tried gating it yet.. I am new to recording drums and was just trying to play with levels. I can try using the VST gate through the insert channel. What are the general guidelines or theory behind gating drums anyway? Is there a good simple resource that you could point me in the direction of? Thanks again, lots of great suggestions soo far and it is good to hear from people with experience..
 
Just turn the threshold up until only the kick opens the gate. If it sounds too cut off, give it more release time.
 
Been pondering about Drumagog cymbal replacing as well since day one. I really don't see how it would work. What's the point? Why do people create cymbal GOG files anyway?
 
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