drum sound

S

solaris0031

New member



ok so i'm sure you will have some large complaints and i'm ready for it. this is a quick drum solo i had a friend do so i could work on my drum solo. i was going for a more metal type sound with a clicky kick, and the cymbals set back in the mix somewhat. I am not sure whether my toms are tuned just right..... pplease this is not about the drumming and i know its probably not great but its just me and my school friends. sorry.

as far as equipment:
Tama Rockstar 5 piece kit with zildjan and paiste cymbals

audix overheads in X-Y about two drum sticks height about the snare

kick mic also audix, just inside the front head, pointed at the area where the beaters hit

snare top mic'd with SM57

toms with a blue ball on the floor tom and a audix F10s on the two rack toms (all top mic'd)


8 tracks in through a delta 1010 (pres on my yamaha mg16/4)

no reverbs used at all (some friends thought i did) and i did some liberal use of compression.....im going for a fairly compressed sound.


thanks in advance, this board has really helped me a lot i think. you guys are all great.

cheers,
Stan
 
I'm checking it out in mono so take this with a grain of salt. Yup sounds like it has verb on the snare at least. Not a bad sound, what size room are you in? Any acoustic treatment involved? Snare sure is pingy, compressed? doesn't sound compressed much . 2nd tom is kinda boingy

Overall sounds cool.

But its all moot without the rest ya now?
 
i'm almost positive that there is no verb on the snare (but i might have put some on and im just having amnesia.....), and there is compression on the snare, plus compression on the entire mix. The Room is about 25 by 25 and 14 foot ceiling. no acoustic treatment at all, but the floor is thick carpet, and half the walls are floor-to-ceiling bookshelves (full of books).
 
Toms have unacceptable ring on them. Snare sounds pingy with too much undersnare sizzle (tighten those snares!) that make the beats slosh into each other. The cymbals sound too brittle and have too much washy sustain.

Overall you need a lot of compression because the playing is erratic.

As far as a drum solo goes, it is just a chops-fest and doesn't have any real development going on... making it pretty boring IMHO.
 
solaris0031 said:
i'm almost positive that there is no verb on the snare (but i might have put some on and im just having amnesia.....), and there is compression on the snare, plus compression on the entire mix. The Room is about 25 by 25 and 14 foot ceiling. no acoustic treatment at all, but the floor is thick carpet, and half the walls are floor-to-ceiling bookshelves (full of books).
Click to expand...


I didn't mean you have verb on the snare. That's what I hear, maybe because of the room.
 
yeah i feel you......as far as the cymbals, i seem to have that sortof washy sound all the time.....is that because of bad mic placement? what can i do to fix that? i havent seen anything around here about it...help!
 
and i forgot to say, thanks you guys for the constructive criticism.....i appreciate having people that give me really useful advice. it really helps me a lot and i am very grateful
 
Perhaps another thing to consider:

I could hear the toms and snare rumble a bit when your friend hit the kick drums. Use a gate--it should help keep everything isolated.
 
Interesting sound thats for sure. It sounds very compressed to me. Maybe not overly compressed but some settings need to be tweaked. I can hear the compression coming in and out. Sounds very live and reverberant with lots of overtones and rings.

Danny
 
i have tried gating but here's my (maybe i'm doing something wrong) problem:

if i set the threshold too high, it cuts off and makes the drums sound like crappy samples, and if i set it too low, other parts of the kit bleed in past the gate.

and does anybody have any thoughts on the washy cymbals problem?
 
Honestly the problems in the drums are something that you can't fix with gates, eq's or compression. In fact they will probably make it even worse. One thing I teach younger AE's is that compression and EQ do wonders on GOOD SIGNALS... but if your signals aren't good you are just probably drawing attention to the tracking deficiencies.

To correct those issues you'd honestly have to go back and re-record. I know it's depressing to think about. EVERYONE has been there though.

Best bet is to aim for a "finished" sound during tracking. If you can nail great tones coming off the mixer without a lot of fancy mixing... just imagine when you DO mix it!

Especially cymbal/overhead mics. Those are hard to doctor. Maybe they could be fixed if they HAD to be fixed and you couldn't re-rec them. They will never be perfect though.

Live and learn I always say. No big deal. The next time you will be fussier about the tracking and things will be better, trust me. :) I take my time when getting sounds and tracking because I don't want to have to Pro-Tools/Beat Detective/Sound Replacer the crap out of bad performances. It actually depresses me.

Once I did an album years ago without any punch-ins, correction or errata of any sort. The band wanted a very "live" feel so I told them that we aren't doing any fancy editing tricks, punch-ins or nothing. Just straight performances of the band and then a guitar overdub (only 2 tracks of guitar). Of course we *did* comp the vocal but everything else was about as live and raw as you can get. Turned out fine considering it was done on fairly crummy borrowed home recording gear (Mackie VLZ 1604, Fostex VF16) because at the time my G4/MOTU setup had died.
 
well luckily that drum solo was done specifically for me to practice mixing on, so re-recording is no issue at all :D

so the things im hearing that i need to do before i go to record drums again are:

1. fix that snare sound -- tighten the snares for less sizzle, and work on better mic placement to get a less pingy sound

2. fix the tom sound -- damp the tom's heads to get rid of the boingy ring, work on better mic placement

3. fix the over head sound --- going to have to read around hr some more because i thought i was doing everything right (2 drum sticks height above the snare, centered over kit, X-Y placement) and obviously i have some work to do there.

and im considering trying out a hihat mic just for kicks

thanks for the advice cloneboy, you have helped me a lot more than once, even if my ego has gotten bruised in the process ;)


did anybody have anything to say about the kick drum sound?
 
I love the kick sound. Sound like it peaked towards the end though, maybe?

I'd be getting out the gaffer tape and putting some on each of the top heads. I agree with the points on the snare, tighten the snares and damp it a bit.

Overheads are hard to get right at first. I have just screwed up a song by getting too much snare in one OH, so it sounds like I panned it out.:(
 
don't like that compression.... try a multiband compressor. The low end on that kick is a little muddy at times (before the compressor kicks in).
 
solaris0031 said:
2. fix the tom sound -- damp the tom's heads to get rid of the boingy ring, work on better mic placement


and im considering trying out a hihat mic just for kicks


did anybody have anything to say about the kick drum sound?
Click to expand...


I think the tom sound could be a tuning problem and it sounds to me like the bottom skin is way too tight.

I wouldnt bother with a hi-hat mic as it will probably pick up more snare than anything in my experience.

The bass drum sound is great in my opinion except it sounds like its distorting on the normal hat beat in places.

can i get some details on the bass drum sound like tuning, compression and eq if any?
 
its a 22 inch tama kick drum (rockstar) with evans EMAD batter head (with the smaller damping ring on) and a Tama resonant head....as far as tuning....i just kinda tuned it till it sounded good.....the kick mic is an audix F12 (from my Fusion 6 drum mic kit) placed with the cartridge about 2 inches inside a 5 inch diameter hole, and pointed directly at the batter head where the beaters hit

oh and theres a small couch pillow inside up against the bottom part of the batter head. The pedal is a tama iron cobra double pedal with the hard plastic beaters.

for eq, i cut by 4.7db at 415hz (q on 1.1) and i boosted by 4.1db at 4khz and above.

as far as compression, i used a multiband compressor on the kick track and honestly im not sure how to describe with numbers but here's a screen capture of it (and i added the arrows to show which line goes with what frequencies) http://www.stansanders.com/kickcomp.jpg

hope that helps,

stan
 
thanks thats a big help becouse i was having trouble getting fast double bass to sound distinctive.

did my advice help with the toms?
 
glad i have actually helped somebody here ahahahaha


as far as toms, i havent had a chance to try it yet (highschool, girl, guitar, website, it all pulls in different directions :p ) but i will definetely try loosening the bottom heads.....can you suggest a good source of info on drum tuning? (preferably something online and concise)
 
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