Drum miking Techniques needed

[jspitza]

Hello everyone:
I am new to this group so I do feel a bit awkward but I am glad to be here!
Anyway, my question is for any advice for my home recording drum set up.
I am on a limited budget and have 4 current mics:
1 Oktava 319
1 SM 57
1 Marshall 993
1 Marshall 990
MMP-2 Mic modeling preamp, Aphex 107 preamp, Behringer mixer and composer pro comp
The 57 and Oktiva are going through the Roland. The Marshalls are straight into the mixer due to the low noise floor.

I am experiencing some difficulty controlling the volume of my crash and china cymbals, which are all Zildjian K custom dark series and placed directly in front on me. These cymbals do have an explosive character and are sometimes over powering in live situations. Also, my toms seem to be present but not in your face, which is what I would like. My current set up is:
993 pointed towards the HH, slightly angled upwards to catch some of the crash-I do like this position a lot.
990 directly behind my head for a center "mix", catching most if not all of my ride and crashes but is catching too much of a crash located directly in front of me. When I move the 990 back away from my head, the toms are too distant sounding but solves the dynamic problems with my front crash and china cymbals.
SM57-direct on the snare
Oktava- directly in front of the BD IMO due to it's warm and powerful tone
Here are my drum specs for anyone here who may have experience in it’s sound properties:
Pearl export-10,12,13,16 toms-22” BD-Evans hydraulic top, light bottom
Yamaha musashi 13’ SD-oak-Evans dry control ring top -thin bottom
20” K custom dry ride
13” A master sound HH
16” K custom dark crash
12” K custom dark splash-very problematic
14” K custom china-extremely problematic
15” A custom crash
18” Wuhan china- loud but manageable



At this point in time I could afford another condenser, perhaps better then the Marshall lines but do think that 4 mics is plenty and that my lack of experience is the culprit. The fact that I’m also in a basement lends problems though I have made felt baffles for better absorption. I have the entire weekend to experiment but these were the initial results. Any thoughts as to alternate mike positions or mike usage is most appreciated!

 

[LRosario]

You have 4 mics to work with:


SM57 on the snare, thats fine. However, it's the other mic's I question. Overheads are probably the most important of all the mics for drum mikin. In fact, with a kick ass pair of overheads, you wouldn't need any other mics.

Typically the setup could be as follows:


1)SM57 on the snare
2) Your large diaphram dynamic mic for the kick (usually in a weird zepplin shape or otherwise weird shape).
3) 2 condenser mics on the overheads.


For drums as a rule of thumb:

Identify your rythm parts (Kick, snare, hihat and ride). Anything else will be considered second priority. I do this because human listening expects to identify a beat easily and quickly. If you can't make the beat identifable, then you've loss the listener.


If your drumset is spread over a wide range, then you place your condensers up high over as much of the cymbal area as you can. I typically center one over the ride and another over the high hat, since they are rythm cymbals.

If it's a smaller set, you can afford to bring your overheads closer over the hi hats and ride cymbal.

This is some basic stuff that should get you started.

 

[mattamatta]

Only thing I thought of right away without really trying to think about it and picture what you're doing is that maybe if the over the shoulder mic is great except the crash's, try adjusting the crashes higher if they're not up there already.... dunno how they are.

Looks like you already got some good advice and seems you'll be able to figure out what you're doing.

BTW, great first post. Very descriptive in all the right areas, and it looks like you've already done a good job answering your question on your own.

A lot more interesting than "i have some mics how do i record drums i want to sound like tool" =D

 

[Bulls Hit]

If the crashs are a problem you can try caressing the cymbals instead of smashing them.

Otherwise move the oheads higher/further away and throw volume envelopes over your toms to compensate

 

[LRosario]

I had some free time on my hands and I tried looking up the MXL condensers you're using. Seems they have been discontinued. I was trying to look up the specs and I got nothing.


But my guess is, the SPL handling on those mics probably isn't the best for this kind of situation.

So short of buying better condensers, BH is right....ease up on those cymbals

 

[jspitza]

thank you all!

well, many thanks to you all for the resposes. I am now currently trying out all of the gear I have mentioned and so far, not to shabby. The SD seems to be the real bitch for some reason-can't get it to sit in the center but my position may be to close to the skin. Bd is flat out scary but needs compression. I'm going to put the 57 and 319 through the MMP-2 and start compression and EQing, possibliy some modeling for added punch. The cymbals are now tame thanks to the recommdations you all gave me. Hard to mix in headphones! Also, thnaks for the kind response MattaMatta. I feel very safe here now! BTW: Yes, the 9 series seems to be discontinued but I do have a warranty-maybe they will break and they will have to give me a better equivalent. I'll keep on taking advice if you have it!

 

[tubesrawsom]

do the usual with the kick and snare but with the condensers put 1 in between two toms and angle them so the cymbals reflect of the head of the toms and go to the mics (they act like a pzm) ive tried it and it works really well
thankyou tapeop
peace