Drum layering...

[timvracer]

Ok, well the latest in the noob files as I keep learning... Drum Layering. I have been working like crazy (shaping, EQ, compression, verb, etc. etc.) to try and get the poorly recorded drum tracks I have to sound much better (and before I get all the "retrack your shit" feedback - which is appropriate I might add, I am just the mixing guy, and the band can't re-record).

So I just found out my Sonar Platinum has a "Drum Replacer" feature which uses the ARA capability (along with Melodyne, which I have used extensively to fix vocals). In any case, it lets me take some high quality samples, and it does a great job of creating an alternative track for each drum part that I can mix back into the original to get a higher quality sound (or I can replace the original 100% if so inclined).

So what say you... it certainly sounds better, so by that measure, I am loving it (lots of work to do now to use it across all my mixes). However, I am interested in what you experienced guys think about this, is it commonly used? Do you use this kind of layering?

 

[miroslav]

I have Slate Trigger that is meant for the purpose...though TBH, I've not really had a major reason to use it on mixes because .1) I find that sorting out the drums during tracking in stead of later, is easier, and 2.) for the stuff where the drums were already done, but don't sound right, I just ended up redoing them, because again, it was easier and also gave me the opportunity to change up some of the grooves that I wasn't quite happy with.

That said...if you're straddled with drum tracks that need help and can't be redone...then yeah, sample-trigger them and do what you have to.
jimmys69 does a lot of that stuff for his projects that come from the outside...he's probably more into it than most folks here...and he too uses Trigger.

So...are you asking if it's cool to do that or are you asking for tech tips on how better to do it?

 

[timvracer]

So...are you asking if it's cool to do that or are you asking for tech tips on how better to do it?

Both really... would definitely love to hear from those who do this, how they think about it, approach it, etc. I am making it up on the fly here.

In my case, the raw tracks really suck, so my effects chain really does clean them up quite a bit (Gate, shaper, desser to take cymbals out of kick/toms, compression, EQ), but the Replacer works pre-FX (it's built in mixer blends with the original signal, then sends all of that into my FX). Since my FX are only for fixing the bad track, I will duplicate the track, use one version for triggering the replacer, and then mix the replacer output and my "fixed" version of the original into a bus for that component, then that will go into the overall drums bus.

At least, that seems to be what I need to do if I want to blend the "fixed" original with the triggered content. Interested in other ways folks think about this or deal with less than stellar drum tracks.

I am excited to use this for the cymbals to add some fidelity to the high end with some hi quality samples blended in.

 

[jkuehlin]

Ok, well the latest in the noob files as I keep learning... Drum Layering. I have been working like crazy (shaping, EQ, compression, verb, etc. etc.) to try and get the poorly recorded drum tracks I have to sound much better (and before I get all the "retrack your shit" feedback - which is appropriate I might add, I am just the mixing guy, and the band can't re-record).

So I just found out my Sonar Platinum has a "Drum Replacer" feature which uses the ARA capability (along with Melodyne, which I have used extensively to fix vocals). In any case, it lets me take some high quality samples, and it does a great job of creating an alternative track for each drum part that I can mix back into the original to get a higher quality sound (or I can replace the original 100% if so inclined).

So what say you... it certainly sounds better, so by that measure, I am loving it (lots of work to do now to use it across all my mixes). However, I am interested in what you experienced guys think about this, is it commonly used? Do you use this kind of layering?

Welcome to the art of turd polishing ...aka - a day in the life of a mix engineer. Drum replacement is VERY common. Even for well recorded tracks, though in some styles of music, less than others.

I use Addictive and Slate. For sample libraries I have the entire libraries from XLN and Expansion, and most of the 3rd party expansions. Unless an incompetent producer hands me a hard drive full of total shit and says 'mix this', I attempt to honor the initiative of the drummer and his techs in the mix. If they use a Gretsch Brooklyn snare, I usually start with my samples of the same thing, and try to integrate them from there. That way it doesn't come back like..."I came in with a DW wooden piccolo, so how did we end up with a 8" metal snare with a de-tuned head?" You wanna try and preserve the general direction of the drummer when you're choosing your replacements. That's why I keep a wide variety of samples available.

 

[comatosed]

I've used it before, was given a live recording to mix and the drums were awful. I basically re-did the entire thing with samples but kept them at a level that didn't make it obvious, wanted to try and keep that live feel to it.

I actually came very close to just redoing the drums myself, something else I've done before.