drum kit suggestions

[antichef]

I newb-spoo all over the drum forum on a semi-regular basis - here's another one, apology in advance.

The missus just called to say that she and the rest of the family have decided to get me a drum set for xmas, and that we should go pick it out tonight. She said that the budget is about $400. *** I already have some cymbals, a hihat, and a kick pedal and some other stuff, so what we're really talking about is shells (and heads) **** and if it has to go above 400, I can use my advocacy skills. My current stuff isn't top of the line, but I'll deal with that later - for now, it's just shells (and heads) in focus. I don't mind buying used, but since this is probably a window of a few hours (before they realize how idiotic it would be for me to have loud drums in the house), we're probably talking new, due to immediate availability concerns.

I've been researching this for about a year, but I still don't feel prepared. I can't play worth shit, but I hope to be able to play a) generalized rock/alternative songs; b) gentle backing for acoustic guitar dominated songs; c) simple jazz pieces (if there is such a thing); and to generally have it as a jack-of-most-trades studio kit for me and others to play. No live performance is planned.

My inclination is to go for a Gretch maple set. Any comments will be *greatly* appreciated.

 

[Greg_L]

400 for new stuff isn't going to get you very far. You can do well, but it's gonna take more than a few hours to find the sweetest deal. I'd go for a used shell pack from a quality name brand. I don't know about your area, but my local GC has stacks of used Tama, Pearls, Gretsch's, etc. Just the drums - no hardware. If you can find something like that, do it.

 

[antichef]

I'm *in* your area, sort of - you talking about the GC on Westheimer that just moved a few blocks west?

 

[Greg_L]

I'm *in* your area, sort of - you talking about the GC on Westheimer that just moved a few blocks west?

Ah yes, I forgot that you are in H-town. Yeah, the new GC has lots of used stuff. Check Rockin Robin too at Richmond and Shephard. They will wheel and deal at RR.

 

[antichef]

RR is really close to my house (I'm in midtown, pretty much) - They have a sweet looking set of Sonors there (kind of gaudy in appearance), but they want a lot more for them. I was also thinking about Houston Percussion Center.

 

[Greg_L]

RR is really close to my house (I'm in midtown, pretty much) - They have a sweet looking set of Sonors there (kind of gaudy in appearance), but they want a lot more for them. I was also thinking about Houston Percussion Center.

That place fully rules, but you aint getting nuthin out of there for only 400 bucks.

 

[saads]

Tamas usually have great quality for the price. I'm thinking used Tama.

 

[Seafroggys]

Mmmmmm, Sonors

<---loves his Sonors

 

[antichef]

Argh. GC Westheimer said they sold all their used kits before the move - they had one used kit there - a $2500 DW double kit monster set.

The clock ran out, the boom came down, and I got a Gretsch Catalina maple 6 piece set for about 2X budget - still in boxes. That's more toms (2 floor toms) than I think I'll need, but I guess it'll help in the versatility department.

I almost never buy new stuff (only used, normally), so this is nice for a change, I guess.

Thanks everybody! I'll post a pic when I get it set up.

 

[Greg_L]

Argh. GC Westheimer said they sold all their used kits before the move .

Those fuckers lied to you. I was there the day after the move and they had used shit stacked up everywhere.
Sounds like you did okay though. congrats.

 

[antichef]

fuckers. At least I can say they didn't have used stuff out on the floor, because I looked at every set.

I think this is the set for me, though. The $749 price looks to be about the average normal price for a new set on Ebay (but with tax and without shipping) - there are a couple of sellers that are cheaper, but it's much easier to return to GC (especially before I open the boxes ), so I don't mind.

 

[antichef]

Merry Xmas everybody!

I read up some more on the Catalina Maples, and it looks like all the good reviews were from 2007, then all the reviews in 2009 are bad, like there was a quality drop. For that reason, I decided to inspect the new drums carefully. I put a big piece of glass on the floor (a mirror) to see how flat the bearing edges are.

I didn't get past the snare, which was the the first one I took out - it has 8 lugs, but one of them spun freely, because the threaded cylinder that it screws into had fallen down into the metal casing that's bolted to the side of the shell - I tried turning the snare upside down and shaking it gently to get things to fall into place, but it didn't work. Anyway, I removed all the top lugs and then removed the top snare head, then put the snare upside down on the mirror, with the bearing edge touching the mirror -- but it wouldn't lay completely flat, instead wobbling from side to side a little.

I packed it back up, and I'm thinking I'll return the set - but I should ask - are these bad things? Does it sound like I'm being too particular on either of those points? Of course I definitely want all 8 lugs connected, and since the other 7 lugs don't seem to have the same problem as the 1, that's gotta be a problem (but could there be something obvious that I'm missing?). What about the bearing edge - does it need to be completely flat?

 

[Greg_L]

Yeah it should be flat. Return them and demand they give you something better for the same price.

 

[antichef]

I stopped at Rockin' Robin on the way, and wound up getting a used 5 piece Premier set for half what I paid for the Gretsch set - it was kind of dirty, but I just spent the last couple of hours taking it apart, cleaning, and putting back together. Coincidentally, it's about the same color as the first set (but says "Made in England" instead of "Made in China" )

They had a *lot* of cool sets at RR - they took me into a back room I didn't know was there. I returned the other set to GC.

The Premier toms have fairly new Remo "Weatherking" heads, and I think they're oil filled, because that's how they looked when I took them off.

I happened to have a crappy "First Act" 8" tom that's about the same color (without the wood grain), and I picked up two Aquarian heads for it and put them on, then was able to mount it on top of the 10" Premier tom, and it pretty much blends.

I'm pumped!

 

[Greg_L]

I stopped at Rockin' Robin on the way, and wound up getting a used 5 piece Premier set for half what I paid for the Gretsch set - it was kind of dirty, but I just spent the last couple of hours taking it apart, cleaning, and putting back together. Coincidentally, it's about the same color as the first set (but says "Made in England" instead of "Made in China" )

They had a *lot* of cool sets at RR - they took me into a back room I didn't know was there. I returned the other set to GC.

The Premier toms have fairly new Remo "Weatherking" heads, and I think they're oil filled, because that's how they looked when I took them off.

I happened to have a crappy "First Act" 8" tom that's about the same color (without the wood grain), and I picked up two Aquarian heads for it and put them on, then was able to mount it on top of the 10" Premier tom, and it pretty much blends.

I'm pumped!

Yeah the back room at RR is awesome. Enjoy your new kit.

 

[dintymoore]

Yaaaaaaa!

Thank you very much.

I heard someone say once that the most important thing for a drumset to have isn't actually the greatest sound but character. I can't imagine that those drums don't have more character than the ones you took back. I've played drums that sounded great that I just didn't like and then some piece of shit drums that had tons of character that I liked more.

 

[antichef]

Character - yes - I feel like I got a new pet from the pound. Who knows how the new set was going to sound, but with the quality issues I saw up front, I wasn't getting my hopes up.

The Premier toms and even the kick sound pretty good to me. I'm having some issues with the snare (but I've got another one that works for me, so no worries) - I think I may wind up getting new lug bolts. Cleaned up, the set actually looks pretty good, too - I'll post pics later.

 

[antichef]

Here's my first attempt at recording them (and not far from the first attempt at playing drums ) - I'm stuck recording in a sun porch that's not much bigger than the set. My timing's not as abysmal as what you'll hear.

Two issues that bug me most are 1) the kick sound - what you hear recorded is pretty much what the thing sounds like - (it's completely unmuffled at the moment - I just watched stillnoname's video, and besides pwning my bitch ass as a drummer, I notice he has a pillow and weight in his kick and has removed the resonant head - I'll try that)

and 2) the fact that my toms rattle the snare when I hit them - not sure what to do about that.

Now... just give me 10 to 15 years, and watch out!!!

 

[saads]

and 2) the fact that my toms rattle the snare when I hit them - not sure what to do about that.

There's a couple of things you can do about that. First of all, chances are in the whole mix, some slight snare buzz won't be noticeable. If it bothers you too much, you could try to move the toms or the snare a little bit, that often makes quite a difference. You could try slightly tightening/loosening the snare strainer. Or you could use some moongel on the snare. But remember the first priority is to get the snare sound you want, stopping the buzz comes second.

 

[Greg_L]

Here's my first attempt at recording them (and not far from the first attempt at playing drums ) - I'm stuck recording in a sun porch that's not much bigger than the set. My timing's not as abysmal as what you'll hear.

Two issues that bug me most are 1) the kick sound - what you hear recorded is pretty much what the thing sounds like - (it's completely unmuffled at the moment - I just watched stillnoname's video, and besides pwning my bitch ass as a drummer, I notice he has a pillow and weight in his kick and has removed the resonant head - I'll try that)

and 2) the fact that my toms rattle the snare when I hit them - not sure what to do about that.

Now... just give me 10 to 15 years, and watch out!!!

Don't spend too much time worrying about how the drums sound recorded by themselves. Look for phase problems and overhead spread, but don't worry too much about kick attack and tom depth until you have other things going on in the mix. Things will change in a full mix. I'd recommend laying down some scratch guitar and bass, and then see how things sound.

The kick - that's what unmuffled kicks sound like. Depending on the song, you might want that kick sound. I'd recommend against taking the front head off. Cut a 5-6 inch hole in the front head if you want to stick a mic in there. Sure, you can also stick a small pillow in there just barely touching the batter head if you want to tighten it up, but don't over-muffle. Nothing kills a kick drum like a big ass blanket crammed in there taking up half the space. People also used to put paint cans and cinder blocks in there too. Totally unnecessary. Try an adjustable batter head like an Evans Emad and a good reso like an Evans EQ3. Tune it right and get ready for kick drum glory.

The snare - Snares buzz. That's just what they do. Play with the tuning to minimize the buzz. Tune the bottom head to a different pitch from the top head, and maybe tune the lugs adjacent to the snare wires a little tighter on the bottom head. Chances are, unless the mix is sparse, you won't hear the snare buzzing. Again, head choice plays a huge role in how the snare is gonna sound.

I'd also spend some time with those toms. They don't sound bad, but play with the tuning. Try different pitches on the top and bottom heads. Having the bottom heads a little tighter usually yields very nice results. You get that cool, deep pitch bend sound.