Drum kit on a tight budget - or better off with software?

amonte

amonte

New member
I'm looking for an affordable option for adding drums to my music. I have very limited drumming ability at the moment, but I am trying to decide between investing in a very small kit or using some software tools to get a decent drum track. I doubt that I can get a truly realistic drum sound and feel using software, but I am concerned that the cost of purchasing drums might force me to go down this road. As far as my limited skill is conerned, I'm assuming that having a kit around will allow me to improve (probably slowly), or I could always invite someone of greater abilities to sit in...

Initially, I could get by with just a bass, snare, floor tom, crash and ride. I'm into mostly indie rock, (think Franz Ferdinand, the Strokes, etc.), but a better point of reference would probably be some early to mid-60's rock (early Beatles, Kinks, Velvet Underground, etc.). I'll just be using this kit in my home, if that makes a difference. Any information at this point would be very helpful.

Is there an obvious choice for what I'm looking for?
 
The only obvious choice i know is to look for something decent used.

One thing, for the basic set up stuff you mention (ride, crash, , bass snare, floor tom) you aren't going to save any significant money by leaving out the toms, but the hats will cost you, and i would not try to actually play drums without a hihat. I dig a minimalist sound as well, but no budget ride is going to sound that great in every song with no variation, especially rockin' stuff like the bands you mention.

My suggestion is to get a used set (no time or room to go into every option), replace the heads with something decent, and buy some decent cymbols, IMO, cheap cymbols will stand out as poor sounding much more than cheap shells.

Learning to play them will be fun, and you will be a better musician overall, it is wortht he investment.

Daav
 
daav, thanks so much for the reply. That actually was a mistake on my part - I meant to include hi-hat...actually, if I was buying this over time, I'd probably get the hi-hat before the ride...

I know listing individual kits would be too much, but is there any brand I should look towards in the used department for getting the type of sound I mentioned? Or any brand I should avoid?

Poking around eBay, I came across the Gretsch Catalina Club series - do you think something along those lines might work?
 
Great link, thanks a lot...wow, looks like for something "decent", this is going to be a bit more than I thought...used might be the only way for me to go...
 
The cheapest way is probably to go digital, I know that the coolest way to make drums for an old school rock project like yours would be "real" drums, but considering the price of a decent kit, and the cost of microphones if you don't have some suited for recording drums, digital are IMHO easier and cheaper to go for..

I would recommend that you take a look in "drumkit from hell"'s direction, and if it has to be cheap, you don't even have to go for the latest version, check this one out for example:

http://www.soundsonline.com/sophtml/details.phtml?sku=PSP-06

Theyre great sounding, and there is even a sampler included, and considering the price, 100$, you haven't spent a truckload of money for nothing, the day that you decide that you have the urge and the $ to go for a real kit..
 
my brother started out on a pacific drumset. it was $299, i think, for a basic 5 piece kit...one of their first sets, i think. that was three or four years ago. i was impressed with their sound and the quality of construction. good beginner set. cymbals is where you're going to have to spend a lot of money.
 
drpfeffer, well as far as mics for drums go, I've got two overheads, but that's about it, though I will be getting an SM57 in the near future, and it could serve double duty as a snare mic.

If I did go down the digital road, the two products I was leaning towards are this...

http://www.toontrack.com/custom_vintage.shtml

and this...

http://www.rayzoon.com/

I've been using the demo of Rayzoon's Virtual Drummer, and it does produce some pretty realistic results - I think only the samples that come provided for free are what's holding it back.

Still, if I go the route I'm thinking (BFD vintage + Virtual Drummer), I'm at around $400, which is a fairly decent sized investment. I'm just concerned that in the end, the drums still won't sound realistic.

In the meantime, I have an old drum sample disc that I bought a few years back (Real Live Drums) and I'm using it inside of FruityLoops to build patterns. Getting it to sound "real" is the tough part - the subtle dynamic shifts and the slight pattern variations are the hard part. Still, for demos, it works well, though I don't know if I'd want to use them on any finished project.

For now I guess they'll have to do, and I'll just have to wait and see with either going the digital route or getting a kit.
 
amonte said:
drpfeffer, well as far as mics for drums go, I've got two overheads, but that's about it, though I will be getting an SM57 in the near future, and it could serve double duty as a snare mic.

If I did go down the digital road, the two products I was leaning towards are this...

http://www.toontrack.com/custom_vintage.shtml

and this...

http://www.rayzoon.com/

I've been using the demo of Rayzoon's Virtual Drummer, and it does produce some pretty realistic results - I think only the samples that come provided for free are what's holding it back.

Still, if I go the route I'm thinking (BFD vintage + Virtual Drummer), I'm at around $400, which is a fairly decent sized investment. I'm just concerned that in the end, the drums still won't sound realistic.

In the meantime, I have an old drum sample disc that I bought a few years back (Real Live Drums) and I'm using it inside of FruityLoops to build patterns. Getting it to sound "real" is the tough part - the subtle dynamic shifts and the slight pattern variations are the hard part. Still, for demos, it works well, though I don't know if I'd want to use them on any finished project.

For now I guess they'll have to do, and I'll just have to wait and see with either going the digital route or getting a kit.
Click to expand...

rayzoon looks pretty cool. i watched the demos (god that chick narrating is annoying). with dfhs and rayzoon you could ditch your shitty drummer if you felt like it.
 
Rayzoon is pretty cool - I've enjoyed playing with it, and I think for what they're asking, it's worth the $'s. My biggest problem is getting it not to overplay - I like very minimal stuff, with only subtle fills. Getting it to play subtle takes a bit of time.

It still beats the hell out of trying to do this stuff from scratch in a sequencer though.

btw, does anyone know what the quality is like on DFH version 1?
 
Not sure this is the cheapest route but Drumkit From Hell Superior, $300 and pick up the MPD16 from Akai off ebay, $100. Then find yourself a drummer to program the whole thing. This produces tracks indestinguishable from the real thing.

DFHS basically used world class preamps and world class mics to record 7, maybe more drumkits. You will not duplicate this sound with a cheap drum set and chinese mics. My 2 cents.

The downside, a dedicate 80GB hardrive and at least 1.5MBs of ram so its about a $400 to $500 solution.

A used edrum set is also a possibility if your in this price range.

An inexpensive drumkit, mics and a mackie board will easily run this much and you will not get as good a sound.
 
Hunt around on the used maket for something cheap that sounds cool. Right now at my studio I have a Yamaha recording custom (expensive!) and a Tama Rockstar kit (super cheap) and the Tama sounds really great and gets used just as much as the expensive kit. Its actually better for some recordings.

You can get great drum recordings with various 3 mic techniques.
 
Middleman said:
Not sure this is the cheapest route but Drumkit From Hell Superior, $300 and pick up the MPD16 from Akai off ebay, $100. Then find yourself a drummer to program the whole thing. This produces tracks indestinguishable from the real thing.

DFHS basically used world class preamps and world class mics to record 7, maybe more drumkits. You will not duplicate this sound with a cheap drum set and chinese mics. My 2 cents.

The downside, a dedicate 80GB hardrive and at least 1.5MBs of ram so its about a $400 to $500 solution.

A used edrum set is also a possibility if your in this price range.

An inexpensive drumkit, mics and a mackie board will easily run this much and you will not get as good a sound.
Click to expand...

I'll be honest, I'm surprised I'm getting this much support for the sample route in the Drums forum - I guess that's an indication of how far this technology has come over the last few years.

I'll look up the MPD16, since I'm not sure what that exactly is. Though having heard the results of JamStix (especially when used with DFH or BFD), I'll probably invest in that as well.

So you need an 80 GB drive and 1.5 GB of RAM to run DFH? Yikes.

When you mention an electric drumset, I'm guessing that it could be used as the triggers for DFH/BFD, correct?
 
Ronan said:
Hunt around on the used maket for something cheap that sounds cool. Right now at my studio I have a Yamaha recording custom (expensive!) and a Tama Rockstar kit (super cheap) and the Tama sounds really great and gets used just as much as the expensive kit. Its actually better for some recordings.

You can get great drum recordings with various 3 mic techniques.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've been listening to some of the simple 3 mic setups that people have posted on this site and I like the results.

I actually found a few used kits in the $400 range (can't remember which, but they were both mahagony kits), but I'd still need cymbals/hi hats. They did come with stands though. I'm hoping to get a chance to go and play some of these kits this weekend (or next), just to get a feel for what they sound like.
 
amonte said:
I'll look up the MPD16, since I'm not sure what that exactly is.
Click to expand...

Its a drum trigger pad. I use one and have found it very responsive thus making the drums sound more real.

amonte said:
So you need an 80 GB drive and 1.5 GB of RAM to run DFH? Yikes.
Click to expand...

Yep, otherwise you won't enjoy the experience.

amonte said:
When you mention an electric drumset, I'm guessing that it could be used as the triggers for DFH/BFD, correct?
Click to expand...

Yes, there is a video out at toontrack.com which shows what can be done with a trigger set and DFHS.
 
I've got a hard drive lying around that I haven't installed yet - I think it's 40GB or 60GB, but I had planned on using it just for holding WAV data while recording. So if I'd need a third drive to do this, that might be a bit much. Not sure on the RAM either, I *THINK* I've got 750MB if I'm not mistaken.

Anyway, I appreciate you pointing this out - these additional costs definately bring the price difference closer together. I had no idea using DFH was so HD/memory intensive.
 
Well, 80 is not actually required, the samples are about 45GB as I remember. But if you want some space left over for other things 80 is recommended. The 1.5GB Ram you will definitely need.
 
If you have a friend who isa drummer who really knows their gear - get them to go with you and look the kit over.

There are some MAJOR deals out there on used equipment. You just have to look.
I picked up a 10-piece Yamaha Recording Custom set for about $1,300 around 1993. At the time, the Kick drum alone from that set was selling for over $1,000!

You can find used Ludwig kits in decent shape all day long for around $400 to $500, just keep looking.

One piece of Advice - Stay away from Slingerland. Why? because they are out of business, and any parts you might need to replace are not readily available - that's why I always push Ludwig - you can still get the same lugs (the parts you screw into to tighten the drum head) that they have used for the last 40 years. A lot of drum companies change these things every few years (Pearl and Tama are notorious for this on their lower lines) and when they phasea drumline out, the hardware design usually goes with it - a stupid move, but they do it.

Also, Try not to buy a used set with cheap cymbals - because you will be paying for them, and you might as well pay for name brand cymbals if the kit comes with them.


Tim
 
amonte said:
I'll be honest, I'm surprised I'm getting this much support for the sample route in the Drums forum - I guess that's an indication of how far this technology has come over the last few years.

I'll look up the MPD16, since I'm not sure what that exactly is. Though having heard the results of JamStix (especially when used with DFH or BFD), I'll probably invest in that as well.

So you need an 80 GB drive and 1.5 GB of RAM to run DFH? Yikes.

When you mention an electric drumset, I'm guessing that it could be used as the triggers for DFH/BFD, correct?
Click to expand...


Electronic drums can be a major blessing for home recording! Think about this - if you have an electronic set with electric cymbal triggers, you can lay down a drumtrack in the middle of the night in virtual silence.



Tim
 
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Tim Brown said:
If you have a friend who isa drummer who really knows their gear - get them to go with you and look the kit over.

There are some MAJOR deals out there on used equipment. You just have to look.
I picked up a 10-piece Yamaha Recording Custom set for about $1,300 around 1993. At the time, the Kick drum alone from that set was selling for over $1,000!

You can find used Ludwig kits in decent shape all day long for around $400 to $500, just keep looking.

One piece of Advice - Stay away from Slingerland. Why? because they are out of business, and any parts you might need to replace are not readily available - that's why I always push Ludwig - you can still get the same lugs (the parts you screw into to tighten the drum head) that they have used for the last 40 years. A lot of drum companies change these things every few years (Pearl and Tama are notorious for this on their lower lines) and when they phasea drumline out, the hardware design usually goes with it - a stupid move, but they do it.

Also, Try not to buy a used set with cheap cymbals - because you will be paying for them, and you might as well pay for name brand cymbals if the kit comes with them.


Tim
Click to expand...

tim is right there are many great used kits out there...even the new kits (lower to mid level models) are pretty affordable and made of good quality..


hey tim, i think slingerland is back in biz now...their new kits are good looking but way too damn pricy!!! i think they might go for more than a dw classic kit... :eek:
 
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