drum bus questions

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offcenter2005

offcenter2005

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I have been posting a lot of questions about drums lately because for learning mixing i always want to start with getting the drums sounding as good as i can before moving on. Set but don't forget method i guess. Ill have a good idea of the songs overall sound but i seem to like to start mixing drums first. Could anyone explain the benefits of busing to FX rather than on the track FX inserts alone? And what would you bus and for what reason. I know about parallel compression but im not sure if you are supposed to parallel compress everything or just kick, snare, and toms then a separate parallel setting for overheads and room. I guess what the question overall is, how would you set up a starting point for mixing drums? I already do things a certain way which is to apply FX on the track FX bin, but im sure that there are more detailed ways to do what i already am for better results. I hope this makes sense because whats in my head is hard to explain in question form. Thanks for all the help, I have already improved tremendously just by this forums help.
 
Every project is different, but typically I will setup 5 groups and and 3 FX channels. Snare grp, kick grp, toms grp, all bussed to drums grp. Drum group sends to paralell comp Fx channel as well as drum reverb channel. Overhead group usually goes straight to the master buss as I prefer not to parallel compress overheads. Room mics typically stay out of the compression as well. I send from snare grp to a dedicated snare reverb FX channel. Some times I will create a separate parallel compresion FX channel for both snare and kick. Just depends on how big the drums need to be for the tune. Other times I will send snare, kick, and or toms to a fourth FX channel with distortion (Soundtoys Devil-Loc) if needed. I rarely use anything on the actual track inserts except eq. Rarely gates/compression or limiter. Triggered samples I do on a duplicate track and buss the same as the mic'd tracks.

There are numerous ways to setup drums. This is just my typical arrangement for approaching heavy rock stuff.

Man that like wore out my brain. I have never actually written that down. I just do it. :D

Oh, FX channel conserves CPU as well as a kind of glue to the drums. Same with parallel compression. It can't be done with an insert anyway.
 
Here's what I do:

Kick - EQ, compression
Snare - EQ, compression
Overheads - nothing usually, maybe some EQ
Each tom - EQ

I then bus all of those to a group track. From there I treat the kit as a whole to some mild compression and reverb.

I only reverb the kit as a unit because that's how you'd hear it in real life. I personally don't believe in reverbing each piece, or giving the snare a different reverb like some people like to do. I also don't use parallel compression. Too many people fret over tricks and gimmicks. Just tune it right, mic it right, and play it right, and the rest mostly takes care of itself.
 
Your way sounds a lot easier than mine! lol And it works obviously.
 
jimmys69 said:
Your way sounds a lot easier than mine! lol And it works obviously.
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Yeah reading your shit just gave me a headache.

I literally just finished tracking some drums, and they're pretty much done as-is. :D
 
When gating you would obviously do that on each track insert though right? That is how i have been doing it. I like a good room and overhead sound on the drums because i think it sounds big. I really like the sound of stone temple pilots drums and the chili peppers and it seems like they use a lot of room in their sound. If you just gate the kick snare and toms to get the thump and attack, and blend, would that be the way to achieve that kind of sound? The only kind of busing i have done is send all drums to a drum bus for a little compression and a very small amount of reverb then to the master. And send all from an fx send to a parallel bus for parallel compression. Does that sound right? I have a clip in my last post called critique my drum sound please and there is a link on the second page called drumAB. If you get a chance check it out and see if it sounds like im on the right track. I know that ill have to adjust according to the song but im trying to get the basics down for now before tweaking. Also if you are using buses is it to cut down on cpu and not use too many different effects on individual drums to keep it more cohesive sounding? I always compress each drum a little different but im not sure if that is any better than just compressing the whole set alone.
 
Usually that is true. I guess I found the one band with two members with jobs. The $1,500 they gave me for mixing 10 songs paid for that new PC I just built! This week, I love metalheads! :D
 
You have to just try stuff and see what works for you. We could sit here and tell you everything we do and every setting, but it might not matter at all for your sound.

If you want big huge drums, don't gate anything. The RHCP's and STP get their drum sounds by having pro gear in pro studios with pro engineers and producers at the helm.
 
I try to avoid gates at all cost, unless there is an issue that needs fixing. It starts to sound very unnatural quickly to me. Yes, this coming from a guy using samples. :/
 
jimmys69 said:
Usually that is true. I guess I found the one band with two members with jobs. The $1,500 they gave me for mixing 10 songs paid for that new PC I just built! This week, I love metalheads! :D
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I just checked out your web site and listened to a song called Edward. If you like that shit you should check out a band call macabre. The album murder metal. Pretty much all their songs are about serial killers! kind of cheesy but still a good listen.
 
Greg_L said:
You have to just try stuff and see what works for you. We could sit here and tell you everything we do and every setting, but it might not matter at all for your sound.

If you want big huge drums, don't gate anything. The RHCP's and STP get their drum sounds by having pro gear in pro studios with pro engineers and producers at the helm.
Click to expand...

I know that gear and pro this and that has quite a bit to do with the sound of bands like them. But im positive with the right amount of time spent tweaking your stuff the right way anyone with a good ear and sufficient equipment can get comparable results without a million dollar studio. Im not looking for quick fixes or ways to cop other peoples procedures im just looking for ways to improve what i already know and apply some new techniques. The music biz is slowly dying in my opinion, and people who can make great sounding albums from home will eventually have the upper hand.
 
offcenter2005 said:
I know that gear and pro this and that has quite a bit to do with the sound of bands like them. But im positive with the right amount of time spent tweaking your stuff the right way anyone with a good ear and sufficient equipment can get comparable results without a million dollar studio..
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I don't disagree at all. That is my whole mantra in here. I tell people that all the time. It's kind of like the old saying: Champagne tastes and a beer wallet. You gotta keep in your mind what your limitations are, and try to find a way around them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If you wanna sound slick and pro, you might need to blend in some samples. That's what the pros do.
 
Greg_L said:
I don't disagree at all. That is my whole mantra in here. I tell people that all the time. It's kind of like the old saying: Champagne tastes and a beer wallet. You gotta keep in your mind what your limitations are, and try to find a way around them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If you wanna sound slick and pro, you might need to blend in some samples. That's what the pros do.
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Good advice. I would like to know how to make things sound like the client wants them to. I have along way to go to get good at this but all I do is run things through my head constantly and try to execute it as closely as my minds eye sees it. I do like slick and polished just because it seems to really hit you in the chest. Any more tips would be great if you guys got em.
 
Steven Slate Trigger for greater control over sounds. Simple to use and cheap. Ex is only $129 + iLok. I got the upgrade to Platinum (exact same program, just more samples) for $50. They had a sale. You can use any wav file as a sample. Replace your kick with a fart. Now that might be slick.
 
jimmys69 said:
You can use any wav file as a sample. Replace your kick with a fart. Now that might be slick.
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Better watch not to over do the slick in that situation. Ha! Well unless the song calls for it right? Ive got drum replacement down pretty well. Im wondering what mixing tool help also. Transient designer, compressors, gates, limiters? Its all trial and error though. Different shit for different songs.
 
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