double mic on dist. guitar = flangy?!!??

[shackrock]

so i got my sm57 miced just how i want it to sound (alone).....
it is about 1-2 inches from the cloth....pointed off center to the cone...sounds very crisp and cruntchy - great with 2 tracks panned a bit with this setup.

then, i set up my MXL603s (condensor) to try multiple set-ups.

1 - about 5 feet back..pointed at the amp..away from the amp, high,, low, medium, everything.
2 - i then tried the same positions about 3 feet back
3 - then 2 feet
4 - and lastly pretty close to 1 foot, perhaps a bit more.

no matter where i put it, when i recorded tracks with both mics on - it sounded somewhat FLANGY, or just tons of wierd fuzz in the backround as well....like a big SHHHHHHHHHH over it all. and it was quite wishy washy - hence the flange effect that it sounded like.

however, either mic soloed sounded fine. its a combination of both that did it for me.


any ideas? how do i get this to just be VERY POWERFUL - without the flangy/wishywashy stuff in it? because i definately loved the power that it brought to the guitars.

 

[pipelineaudio]

scrol down the screen to " metal guitar recording tips" and theres a how to on how to get those two mics in phase as close as possible

 

[shackrock]

i read that...but i'm afraid i partly dont understand.

so i got both mics there...but i dont know what volume should be going up....

i assume i keep both mics panned center for this..and watch the level meter to go up? i mean, of course it will go up as i turn a mic's volume fader up...right??

also - i do not have a phase switch button on my mixer, and as well am not good enough with cables, etc. to make my own chord. anything else if that volume goes up?haha

thanks man.,

 

[pipelineaudio]

" i mean, of course it will go up as i turn a mic's volume fader up...right?? "

nope, not necessarily. If they are out of phase, the volume will go DOWN. And thats the trick to this trick

"also - i do not have a phase switch button on my mixer, and as well am not good enough with cables, etc. to make my own chord. anything else if that volume goes up?haha
"

ok, NOW we got problems But never say never, stubbornness will get you thru!

The easiest thing to do then, is to get one mic exactly where you want it, where it sounds best to you, while you are playing exactly what you are going to be playing when you are recording.
Now hopefully someone else can SLOWLY move the other mic back and forth till you like the way it sounds. Be sure to play ALL the notes youre gonna be recording to see if any get cancelled out. Turn up or down either fader and you got your primary eq, without using eq at all!

Now assuming you dont have someone else its gonna be a lot harder...trial and error, picking up the guitar then playing then moving a mic then picking the guitar back up, etc....can be done but itll prolly take forever.

We can try another way.

put one mic where you like the way it sounds

get a noise going on your guitar. A solid steady noise. Unplug a cable or whatver you have to do to get a noise going.

Push the first fader to unity gain, or " 0" or whatever you got as your unity gain mark. Turn up your first mic pre till the noise itself reads zero on the meters. Then mute this channel or turn it down to -infinity if you dont have mute switches

Stick a second mic somewhere, in the general vicinity of where you want it to be...3 feet or so back for a room sound, or right up close like the other mic.

Turn the second fader to zero, or unity or whatever. Turn up its mic pre until you got zero on the meters.

make sure both channels are panned center

unmute the first channel and set its fader to the unity mark

go out into the tracking room or where ever your amp is with some headphones on. SLOWLY move the second mic untill you see the HIGHEST signal on your meters. If you cant see your meters from there, then CAREFULLY move this mic to the LOUDEST position you can find. DONT let your ears' tendency for midrange fool you.

Theres a slight problem here...this really only finds the best in phase spot for one specific center frequency. If you have a signal generator, you can really get tricky, and send out a 1 khz tone to test with or 800hz or whatever....

Once you got the mic in the right spot, turn down both mic pres and fader two. Start playing channel 1 and get it trimmed out right, then start pushing channel 2 up, until its where you like it. If the sound gets thinner as channel 2 comes up, you got mic 2 in the wrong place.

You may find it easier to place a mirror standing up on your meters so you can see them from a distance, to help set this.

You REALLY oughtta see if a friend can make an out of phase cable for you too....youll need it for other things later anyway