Double kicks with out sound holes

punkin

punkin

Univalve & Avatar Speaks
Anyone recording drum sets with two kick drums and no sound holes in the front heads? My son picked up a new drum set a couple weeks ago and I'm really struggling with this. What are you using for mics and tell me about your placement.

The application for this set up is a heavier metal sound. In the past I've relied upon putting a mic inside and pointed at the batter. I also often put an SM57 next to the pedal/beater for a bit more attack. Now my options are limited with a mic out front.

Two kick mics is a new thing here. I've got a single Beta52A which I've always liked. I'm guessing I'm in the market for a second but, I'd like to hear some feedback on what sort of mics you're using on sealed front heads and double kicks before I go shopping.

Thanks!
 
It's NOT the only way. At all. However, in this case I would recommend it. Get a CD and use that for the model, or buy the commercial rings.
 
giraffe said:
cut holes, it's the only way especially for metal.
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yeah, I dunno about the ONLY way either, but i do think cutting holes or removing/replacing the front heads will make your life 1000x easier and get you much better results.

the only other thing I can think is to mic both the front and where the beater smacks the drum.
 
I took the front heads off and certainly setting up was quite a bit easier and the sound was much more predictable. It sounds a bit off without heads on the front so, pair of cheap front heads with holes look like the best bet. Now I'm shopping for a second Beta52a mic.

Thanks all.
 
Thanks pipeline...I'd like to investigate triggered samples a bit more. I've fooled around with it lightly but had some pretty crappy results. It's just one more of those things I keep saying I'll have to spend more time with.

When you trigger samples, are you using dedicated piezo type pickups or are you simply using mics, using gates to trigger up the samples? I've tried using mics but as I mentioned, some pretty lousy results.
 
use drum replacement software, like drumagog. I'm not a huge fan of triggered drum sounds, but it comes in handy sometimes. for metal and double kik stuff, its almost essential if you want stuff to have that slick pro sound.
 
Trying a speaker and not a mike.

have you considered using a 6 inch base speaker to replace the mikes.

By attaching the two speaker leads + to pin 2 and - to pin 3 of the microphone cable the preamps at the mixer will provide the gain. The speaker will have a very limited freq response to the base lines. Less pickup of other sound sources.
 
I second or third or whatever place in line I am recommend micing REALLY close to the batter and just triggering a sample. You can do the same thing with the snare to a certain degree too. Metal is more silicon than steel nowadays, most commercial recordings are 90% samples.
 
Take a can the size of the hole you want. Heat the top of the can on a electric stove until the lip of the can is red. Then use the hot can to melt a perfect hole in the front head. Use gloves as to not burn yourself. :)
 
The best kick sounds I've ever gotten have been with a hole in the head. Just save some cash and buy two new heads with holes in them. I recommened the Audix D6 kick mic.
 
You don't have to buy heads with holes in them, you cut the holes in them.

If you are using beta 52s, your best bet for placement is just inside the hole in the front head. Those mics don't like being placed inside as much as a D112 would.
 
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Farview said:
You don't have to buy heads with holes in them, you cut the holes in them.

If you are using beta 52s, your best bet for placement is just inside the hole in the front head. Those mics don't like being placed inside as much as a D112 would.
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I would if the young lad weren't so attached to them. They're "collectable" in his mind. They're signed by one of his favorite artists and would rather I didn't cut them. But thanks. Reso heads are reasonably inexpensive and, I've been needing a reason/excuse to pick up a second Beta52 anyways.

I'm still very much interested in playing around with samples...if nothing else just for the kicks. I went to radio shack yesterday and picked up some piezos. I've seen a lot of info on the web where these little gems are being used a inexpensive triggers. I've got a little craft idea for the weekend.
 
I'm not sure if this will be any help, but so far as I've read, the best way to get a good clicky/heavy metal sound out of a kick drum is:

- Get an Aquarian Superkick or Superkick II beater head
- Remove front head
- Tune the drum for metal (I don't have specifics here: online tutorials are your friend!)
- Place Audix D6 (or your B2) slightly off-center, about 3-5" from the head pointing directly at the beater
- Place Yamaha Subkick (or equivalent speaker) right in front of the kick drum dead-center. (optional, but really kick-ass if available (pun intended))
- Scoop a lot between ~350hz - ~700hz
- Boost somewhere between 55hz & 80hz, depending on how the drum was tuned and personal taste
- Boost sharply somewhere between 3.5khz and 6.5 khz for the "click" (usually around 4-4.5khz)
- I like to use a second sharp boost between 8-10khz (whatever double the first boost was usually works) to enhance the clickiness

That's what I've surmised based on reading through dozens of threads/articles on the subject! My results have been decent: however, I'm coming to the conclusion that, indeed, samples rule all when it comes to what has come to be the modern metal kick sound.
 
Thanks everyone. I've had very good results recording metal sounding drums in the past. Took me a while to get that boxy, clicky sound but the new variable for me was the double bass drum with no openings.

Just an update, I have a second Beta on the way, we've put some holie reso heads on the kit which did open up the sound quite a bit. While waiting for the #2 Beta to arrive, I think I'm going to experiment with a couple Piezo pickups and use them as triggers...just for the fun of it. I'm hearing that a lot of people are into doing it this way. By the way, Pipelineadio's website has some really nice samples...you should check them out.

I found some super cheap piezos at radio shack and I'm going to plumb them up and give it a go this afternoon. Should be a fun little project. My concern with these things is that they can output a pretty decent voltage when tweaked sharply...upwards of 5 volts or so as I understand. I'm not so sure that my mic pre-amps are up to this...I'll have to do a little homework on that subject.

Anyways, again...thanks all for the advice and suggestions.
 
Your best be with the piezo's is to mount them on a piece of foam and rig up something that hold it against the head. This will make the trigger removable, so you don't have to keep putting it together every time you change heads.


It should be positioned close to the rim. That way it gives you enough of a spike without being too much. It will also keep the trigger/foam thing from bouncing off the head.

Take a look at the Ddrum triggers (not the redshots) to get an idea of what works. All those things are is a piezo on some rigid foam wired to an XLR and attached to a clamp. There is nothing to it (if you have any metal working skills and a shop)
 
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