does this sound better?

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maryslittlesecret

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something new (and hopefully improved)

Howdy, all. I tried to make some changes to our new tune based on your suggestions for our last track (Lullaby) and would love to get your thoughts...

Please take a listen to "Every Drop of Blood" at www.mp3.com/30SoS and let us know what sounds good and what doesn't (and how to fix it ;) ). Thanks!

J
 
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This sounds great, are those fx at 2:17 new addition?

The key fx on this song are perfect, guitars have completely pro sound to them. Vox and bass nice and crisp. As i said before this stuff is killer. What did you change from the last version?
 
Actually, this is a new tune entirely -- we just tried to implement some of the suggestions that were made on our last track (ie: vox too bassy and under-mixed, sparse arrangement, etc.) This is a different type of song, but I still wanted to try out the recommendations...

Not sure which fx you're talking about at 2:17...?
 
Ahhh.. my bad, i didn't read the first post closely. I listened to 'Lullaby' again.

Ok listening to 'Every Drop of Blood'. Excellent again, really sounds like your band has something here. Those choruses are killer. The band sounds so full and hard hitting.

Honestly it sounds just as good as anything a label would release if not better, i'd get your bags packed if they aren't already.
 
Not a problem -- I can see where you might have thought we made changes to the last song... Regardless, we're glad the new one works for you.

No bags packed yet, but a band from the area (which, in Iowa, means the entire state) just signed a deal with No Name/Elektra, so hopefully some other labels will come snooping around...

J
 
Your stuff is really good sounding. I don't really have any comments on the mix because it sounds very professional as is. Good catchy tunes, definately what is popular at this time. I wouldn't be suprised if something comes your way. Good job!
 
Were the drums tracked or looped? Makes all the difference to me. The mix sounds really good, I say. Not exactly my preferred style.
 
Thanks, Analytical Man. We try to keep our music fairly contemporary. Unfortunately, by the time we're done recording a song I'm sick of it... :rolleyes:

FattMusiek -- thanks for the post. The drums were programmed, albeit very meticulously by my drummer and I. We just don't have the gear (or experience or know-how) to record live drums right now. We hope to get into a 'real' studio sometime for that -- which will improve our sound tenfold, considering our drummer is a STUD! :D

Any other thoughts or suggestions on this track?

J
 
I like the guitars, sound very professional to me. You used good samples for the drums, I would ALWAYS prefer real drums though. Some people feel differently.
 
the drum programming IS very good cause it sounds like something a drummer would play. that's what makes it work, but i would really like to hear your music with real drums anyway. that would rule.

love the guitars.
 
Wait a minute... This i do not understand

Were the drums tracked or looped? Makes all the difference to me.


If you have to ask then how could it make a difference? If you could tell right off the bat then that's one thing.
 
a very good sound here on the whole mix... no wrestling going on in the mix. I do love a little harder kick though and big fat toms. :)
 
First Listening : Sony MDR-7506

I'm stopped at 0:42 now.
I was able to understand all of the lyric, but I had to listen very closely.

Choices :

01. That the listener understand the lyric without ever feeling for a second, for an instant that they will be challened to 'pick the actual words' out of the mix. A clear and completely understandable lyric even vor the weakest ear.

02. That the listener by listening very, very carefully can understand all of the words on the first listening, and they won't mind that they cannot understand all of the lyrics 'easily' thus share in the 'story' and the 'images' painted by the songwriting.

03. Lyrics are not really totally important, that the listener miss a few lyrics is cool, because the other things going on in the song are just as interesting or more so.

04. Lyrics are not important, the voices are really just instruments, this is closer to an instrumental than an actual song. The voices could be samples and they would be just as effective for our purposes.

... damn that felt good to finally get those 4 criteria out I've been working on 'codifying' the criteria for a proper vocal mix.

I'll go on to say that a record exectutive will NOT listen a second time to catch more of the lyrics, he simply does not have time. Also, I am not the 'average listener'.

Mixing a vocal in metal is one of the more challenging mixes.

Imagine sending all the instruments to one bus, and compressing that bus, and monitoring it's signal.

Send the vocal to another bus by itself. Are the meters the same ? If the meters are the same ... which one is actually 'louder' ?

Which of the vocal mix criteria I outlined will be met if the meters are 'the same' ?

The other stuff sounds good in the beginning.

At 0:41, at the change, the vocal becomes much more challenging to understand, because the use of effects is much more. And of course in this genre, that's expected, but there are still techniques you can use, where the actual words will still be completely understandable.

If you forget or overlook that you are completely intimate with the lyrics, and that you could hear the lyrics ... even if they were not there AT ALL ... you are making a rookie mistake.

Take the song, and have somebody who has NEVER heard the lyrics before listen, and see how much they can get on the first, and yes, then the second listening. Go to a coffee shop, look for somebody with a tattoo, or a lip ring, and just see if they wanna help out.

In this genre, if they can't get almost all the words on the 'second listening' IMHO, remix 'for the vocal'.

Continuing :

Great vocal performance ... for sure.

At 1:02 you have left the vocal completely exposed, this is an excellent technique to drive home a 'hook' , very good writing. Yes, now you really have the listener really listening to the words ... so you can build up a little, and then hit the chorus hooks again to re-inforce what they have already heard.

But it should be reverse, make it MORE understandable the first time around, and then on the second chorus ... then slather it in effects ... because they have already heard the words once.

2:44, good job, good technique in exposing the vocal. Ahhhh ... so , you know your genre.

My theory is that when you have a human voice singing words especially, that is the lead instrument, nothing is more important in the mix ... unless of course you are in some sort of 'extreme' genre, and of course ... I'm still learning.

If you want a mark woods type violin solo or cameo ... or even a Nirvana type breakdown to a blissed out string trio ... I'm your man on this board, with REAL violin, viola and cello.

PM me if interested.

Pat Jack
 
lullaby

oh my, I'm afraid lullaby ... put me to sleep ...

jUsT KiDdIng !!!

More of the same, I like the technique of 'exposing' the vocal ... very nice.

This type of singing can be very 'camp' and even 'overused' , but your singer is sincere, so it works very well.

I like the punches just exactly in between his words, because of course ... that would shred the word and you'd never understand the lyric.

I'd say this is a category #1 lyric, 'Every Drop of Blood' is a category #2 lyric ... whatcha think ?
 
Great job guy. Reminds me of AIC. Guitars sound great. If it wasn't for that little snare fill towards the end I probably wouldn't have noticed they weren't real drums
 
FattMusiek - we'd definitely prefer real drums as well, but we'll probably have to head to a different studio for that (unless Ed McMahon shows up on my doorstep) ;)

erichenryus - thanks, man. i'm fairly happy with the guitars as well (especially considering my gear), but I'm still going to see if I can improve on them a bit. gonna try a v-amp pro vs my current pod 2.0 -- it's a guitar DI showdown! i'll let you guys know how it works out...

toki987 - our drum sounds have gone through quite an evolution, but they're still a work in progress. we're after the kick from deftones "around the fur" :)

studioviols - wow! that may be a record post for one of our threads. ;) it's cool to see someone taking such interest in the lyrics (even within the mixing aspects). I would definitely say our stuff varies between #1 and #2. lyrics are important to us, but i wouldn't want them to be perfectly enunciated (sp?) and clear -- doesn't really fit with the style. plus, if you have to 'listen' for them, it might be a good thing -- maybe it draws you into the song more? regardless, that's some great insight into the vocal mix. we'll definitely see what we can do to bring them out a bit. ironically enough, many people said the vox were hard to understand on 'Scarecrow', but I may be partial to your review :) And yes, I'd agree that Lullaby is more lyrically-driven than 'Blood'

Bulls Hit - thanks, man. glad the drums sound decent. fills are the biggest (of the many) downsides to programming though -- what sounds completely natural and cool on a real kit with our drummer often sounds stiff and mechanical when programmed. we're still working on ways to loosen it up. what we really need is a development deal so someone can pay for our studio time... :D
 
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