does the band have any "input" on how you mix?

[jmorris]

NL5, I know the rate is low for example. I just mean why raise the price per hour everytime you remix? Unless I misunderstood. They'd kill me here in my town if I tried to do that! I see it wasnt your post but I was just commenting based on your approval if you know what I mean.

 

[xfinsterx]

Does the band really want to be there while I'm gating stuff and/or cleaning up breath noises and all that kind of crap?

If that's you're bag, then knock yourself out, but be sure to bring along a magazine or something to do, because there's a lot of stuff I'm going to be doing that isn't going to be particularly fun or exhilerating to watch.

Tell the band that, before you schedule a mixdown session, you need to spend at least an hour per track "cleaning stuff up." Then have them come in for the stuff that isn't going to require several bottles of no-doze.

.

Agreed.

It can be mind numbing to watch a mixer do the initial setups and clean ups.
Hey its even boring for me!

But when all thats done i dont care if im alone or not really.
As long as the band/artist, and i, know where we want to take the songs..... its all smooth sailing really.

 

[NL5]

NL5, I know the rate is low for example. I just mean why raise the price per hour everytime you remix? Unless I misunderstood. They'd kill me here in my town if I tried to do that! I see it wasnt your post but I was just commenting based on your approval if you know what I mean.

Oops. I kinda read thru it a bit too quickly I think. I edited out a bunch of stuff in what I quoted. I am with Chess and Xfinster as far as I try and get the rough mixing done before the band comes back in - it's pretty boring, and I work much faster by myself. However, once the band comes in they are more than welcome to help with the mxing - it is THEIR project after all.

My room is pretty flat though, so things translate VERY well from here, even if they are not used to the room. The V8's are a bit bright, but that's about it (of course a lot of musicians don't hear highs that well anyway )

edit - I also wanted too add - I misunderstood the sliding scale thing. I thought the second mix was free, the third was 1/3 of the original, etc. I do as many mixes as it takes, although sometimes I end up back where I started because of all the bands "decisions" - it is a bit frustrating, but it still beats the hell out of my day job! Heck, I have ebven had different band members pull me aside and ask to change things exactly opposite of each other - then whaddya do???!?!?!?!??

 

[jmorris]

NL5, I'm right on the same page with you guys. I too have the V8's, also NS 10's for the hell of it.

 

[NL5]

NL5, I'm right on the same page with you guys. I too have the V8's, also NS 10's for the hell of it.

I just got NS10's, but everytime I try and use them, they just sound horrible. I need a mix contest or something to learn them with - I don't want to ruin a real project. Do you find the V8's to be a bit bright? (I have the original version not the V2's)

 

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

Agreed.

It can be mind numbing to watch a mixer do the initial setups and clean ups.
Hey its even boring for me!

But when all thats done i dont care if im alone or not really.
As long as the band/artist, and i, know where we want to take the songs..... its all smooth sailing really.

I told the last band I was working with, "yeah, I don't think you will want to just sit there while i'm making crossfades for all the punches, and muting stuff". It's also a good excuse to give to not have them come in til later in the process. I'll also tell them that it can take up to 10 hours to mix 1 song, so it's better if I get all the basic stuff out of the way, and they can come in when it gets to the more creative part.

 

[zbert]

Really good post everyone.
I like mixing by myself usually. But, I do like to have a member of the band or artist stop by to get some input. I do tell bands I don't like to mix by committee. With bands you tend to get the moron effect. I want more-on the bass. I want more-on the snare. With bands every member feels his instrument should be heard up front.
Many times once you get the first mix where everyone is pretty happy the band or artist will agree with me that I'll just send them mixes as I make them. Usually they may want a minor fix but I've been lucky where no one has said I hate the mix.
I include the mixing in the overall price of a project. I don't charge by the hour but by the project. So I have to be a clear as I can up front that I'll get you the best mix I can but you have to understand the project needs to be finished within a reasonable amount of time. I have not found anyone to be unreasonable so far.

 

[tarnationsauce2]

NL5, I know the rate is low for example. I just mean why raise the price per hour everytime you remix? Unless I misunderstood. They'd kill me here in my town if I tried to do that! I see it wasnt your post but I was just commenting based on your approval if you know what I mean.

I'm sorry for the confusion. I'll try and make it more clear.

This is a flat rate (not hourly) pay scale. Some bands like flat rate, since how can they verify your hourly work unless they are there to count hours? Yes that can be one reason they want to stick around!
So to alleviate that, you make it a flay rate, no matter how many hours it takes.
The scale is to help the band make the right choices about the changes and to prevent micro tweaks. You know, "turn the kick up a teeny bit", then the next mix "Turn it up a teeny bit more" then the next mix, "too much kick". This way you get payed for the tweaks but at a flat rate.

(low prices for example only)
1st mix = $10 = $10
2nd mix = $10 + $0 = $10
3rd mix = $10 + $3 = $13
4th mix = $10 + $3 +$3 = $16
5th mix = $10 + $3 + $3 + $3 = $19
etc....

Does it make more sense now?
You can also charge by the hour. In that case it is a constant cost per hour, no graduation of price. But this way is slower, and more costly. However the band CAN sit in on the mixing sessions.


Anyways, some great posts in here. This is one of those important issues that needs to be talked about.

 

[xfinsterx]

I'm sorry for the confusion. I'll try and make it more clear.

This is a flat rate (not hourly) pay scale. Some bands like flat rate, since how can they verify your hourly work unless they are there to count hours? Yes that can be one reason they want to stick around!
So to alleviate that, you make it a flay rate, no matter how many hours it takes.
The scale is to help the band make the right choices about the changes and to prevent micro tweaks. You know, "turn the kick up a teeny bit", then the next mix "Turn it up a teeny bit more" then the next mix, "too much kick". This way you get payed for the tweaks but at a flat rate.

(low prices for example only)
1st mix = $10 = $10
2nd mix = $10 + $0 = $10
3rd mix = $10 + $3 = $13
4th mix = $10 + $3 +$3 = $16
5th mix = $10 + $3 + $3 + $3 = $19
etc....

Does it make more sense now?
You can also charge by the hour. In that case it is a constant cost per hour, no graduation of price. But this way is slower, and more costly. However the band CAN sit in on the mixing sessions.


Anyways, some great posts in here. This is one of those important issues that needs to be talked about.

What studio do you work at?
I mean....sorry....whats the name of it?

 

[Micter]

Producers are allowed in the mixing sessions. The band isn't. My reasoning is this, each band member wants his/her instrument/vocal to stand out. Musicians by in large don't listen to the mix as a whole. They listen to their instrument.

 

[tarnationsauce2]

What studio do you work at?
I mean....sorry....whats the name of it?

I work on word of mouth, I'm small fry as compared to Falcon or Geomana.
I am a home recordist who can make some side money.

 

[earworm]

great posts!
real interesting how you guys do it,

i need a lounge, and an assistent!!

 

[LemonTree]

to me being a good mix engineer all comes down to psychology. Sure let the band sit there it is there money. You just have to find new and interesting ways of making the band feel they made all the best decisions about your mix.

Get them involved, hell most kids involved in playing music these days are involved in recording it....half of them are on this forum. */10 times someone in the band will come up with something whacky and you think....yeah, let's just try that and see how bad it really is and it turns out the most interesting part of the mix.

Gotta love it!

 

[ndycus1]

For me, it's a pretty simple concept:

Talk to the band about what they want beforehand. Find out what their favorite albums are. And find out what they want to sound like. Get a list of reference albums/songs for you to listen to for what they want for drums, bass, guitars, vocals...and go from there (often, it's impossible to use attributes from many different albums and still get it to mold well, but it's a great starting point). But, the bottom line is communication. Talk to the band about what they want. Often, you'll find that the band doesn't really know.

So, after speaking with the band, and knowing what sound they're going for. I start mixing. I PREFER to do this alone. But, if someone really wants to sit behind me (quiet) for 10 hours, then he/she can be my guest. Far too often, if a band member is in the room with me, he/she starts pointing out the obvious flaws that I haven't even begun to approach at that point. Most people do not have the first idea how complicated and detailed of a process mixing is. They just don't understand. So, with few exceptions, nobody has the patience. Also, I have learned that most people don't know a thing about compression, or EQ, or gating, or panning, or automation, or carving holes for the other instruments. So, in practically every case, the only suggestions that the band has is strictly dealing with VOLUME. "Make this louder, make that quieter." They don't care about what delay times I'm using. So, as far as I'm concerned, they can wait until the mix is "finished" before they begin making suggestions. Then they can tell me that they want their guitars louder or whatever. I realize that, often, what they THINK is a volume issue is actually something else. They say, "turn the vocals up." But, instead, they mean "carve out some of the presence of the guitars so that the vocal can come through more."

Personally, the majority of the people that I mix for come to me because they don't WANT to tell someone how to mix their record. People come to me because they trust me. There have been recent incidents in which I have asked the band for advice or direction. But, they told me to do whatever I feel is right. Yes, occasionally, I'll get that band that is overly picky (even the world's best mixers do). And that can definitely be annoying. But, it's part of the job. There are VERY few occupations that don't have some problems and annoyances.

But, in short, what I do is:
1) Talk to the band to find out what sound(s) they're going for.
2) Mix to the best of your ability.
3) Talk to ALL band members about their opinions and preferences. (Sometimes you can't please everybody, but sometimes you CAN. And it's a wonderful thing when you can.)
4) Readjust to fit their specific preferences. (Often, the band member actually hears things that I do not in regards to their specific instrument.)
5) Give them the final mix.

I rarely ever have to do more than one or two recalls to make adjustments. But, I've definitely found that, in the end, it's worth it. If you can please all 5 guys in the band, whenever that band splits and goes five separate ways, you'll now have 5 more bands that will possibly want to have you mix their projects.

Of course, all of this is subjective. There is definitely not one set way to do it. This is what works best for my personality though. I really don't like people watching me mix. If they would like to, then they can. But, when they watch, I try to explain to them that, if they haven't been around it before, it's a very detailed process and they will be getting bored. And, let them know that you are the professional. And you know what you are doing. And everything is slightly different based on whether you are also producing and/or engineering the project. If you're doing either of those, you should find out what kind of sound(s) they want LONG before the mixing stage.

Wow. That was a lot of writing

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

For me, it's a pretty simple concept:
...
Wow. That was a lot of writing

Hahaha, now you know how I feel with most of my posts. A simple thought sometimes takes a thousand words.

Seriously, though, I thought that was a great post containing more basic truths that your average 5 posts put together. Nice job

G.

 

[chessrock]

I'm sorry. Did you just say something?

I kinda' dozed off there for a second.

 

[xfinsterx]

I work on word of mouth, I'm small fry as compared to Falcon or Geomana.
I am a home recordist who can make some side money.

I could use your reference contact.

It would be for specific clients that are talented, but a little too broke to afford my rates.

Are you located in Portland?

 

[xfinsterx]

each band member wants his/her instrument/vocal to stand out. Musicians by in large don't listen to the mix as a whole. They listen to their instrument.

Thats so sickly true, buddy.

But you could never turn around and say to them,...

"Ok look guy.....I know all you do or dont hear is you.. but right now, im panning my reverbs so shut the fuck up"

 

[Mindset]

no technical question here,
but a few years ago it took me ages before i was able to give the band their final mixdown, i kept on fiddling on it,
now all is better, goes much faster.

I always mix alone, never let a band watch me do it,
but on my last project the band just wanted to come over to change a few things and they kept on bitching about it, pissed me off.

so i wonder, what's your habit? do you just mix the project and send it to them, or do you allow them to give input so that you still can change things;...

guess that its a very personal thing...but am curious

I only choose to work with bands with experience. They know I'll do whatever it takes to make it sound great, if they don't want my sound, than don't hire me

I usually mix the project with them there, and without them there, there's no preference, because the end product will be there regardless.

If they want a producer instead of an engineer, than I'll be happy to change my title of the job to producer for them.... for a price....
Other than that, I follow much of what ndycus1 said.

As for listening let them mix it on their own headphone box to hear their own instrument better... If their too stupid to know their part in the band, than leave em alone.... unless the money is good

 

[tarnationsauce2]

I could use your reference contact.

It would be for specific clients that are talented, but a little too broke to afford my rates.

Are you located in Portland?

Your PM box is full.
I messaged you on MySpace.