does the band have any "input" on how you mix?

E

earworm

New member
no technical question here,
but a few years ago it took me ages before i was able to give the band their final mixdown, i kept on fiddling on it,
now all is better, goes much faster.

I always mix alone, never let a band watch me do it,
but on my last project the band just wanted to come over to change a few things and they kept on bitching about it, pissed me off.

so i wonder, what's your habit? do you just mix the project and send it to them, or do you allow them to give input so that you still can change things;...

guess that its a very personal thing...but am curious
 
Depends on the band. If the band has their "sound" down, and you should be able to tell when you're tracking, than they can get in to review it earlier, say when I'm around 70% done. If you can tell they have horrible ears, and are not self producing at all, then they get to hear it when it's done or close to done and I'll let them make adjustments if they don't like something(usually little or no adjustment is needed because they don't even really know what they want).

I can usually tell who has the best ear, and I take their advice to heart the most. If the entire band wants different things it can become a mess.
 
Well, from a band point of view we'd always try to have someone there.. After all, you finish the mix and that's you done. It's the band that'll end up listening to it for the next year and if there's something in the mix a bit off, on the 1000th listen it's enough to drive ya nuts..

That said, I've always sat in on my bands mixes (just me or maybe me and one other) and we'll sit quietly gather our info and give our thoughts.. usually a compromise involved but also usually works out best..
 
It took me a long time to get this very thing sorted out. I have devised a method that will usually make all happy.

Beforehand, make sure the band knows these will be the rules. Write it into the contract.

Tell them you will sit with them after all the tracking is done (or when they give you the tracks if they were tracked somewhere else). You want to know what bands inspire them if any, be sure to tell them you don't want to emulate. You just want to get a grasp of what general sound they like. Take notes! Ask about guitar tone, vocal levels, and snare/kick sound. Ask about any ideas they already have such as crossfades, FX, etc.

Tell them you will email or snail-mail the songs for their critique or approval. Make sure they know you mix alone for a set rate (read more below). OR you will mix with them for an hourly rate. But be sure they know hourly will cost about DOUBLE because of the rate and the fact they will slow you down by critiquing during the mixing process, instead of critiquing when they are at home. So basically you get to mix alone, or have them pay big bucks to be there. Or you can even tell them you only mix alone.

instruct them to listen to it in their car, ipod, computer, home entertainment system etc. What ever they normally listen to music on. This is good because their ears are "trained" for their own music systems. You have spent many, many hours in your listening position with your trusty monitors. The band does not have that experience in your mixing space and they cannot accurately judge the sound based off your system. To them this might sound stupid, but assure them it is not and it is a lot of help for a good mix.

Give them the mixes as you complete them, spend the most time on one song, so you can use it as a sort of template for the rest of the songs. And make sure the band is very clear on all the changes you make and how you achieved it (change log). Be sure beforehand that the band is very articulate in how they word the changes to be made, or talk over the phone if they can't convey in writing what they want done.

Make sure when you send them the files the song has the revision number in the file name (or on the label of the CD if snail mail). Also make sure they are aware of the current charges.

The mixes are on a graduated pay scale to keep from falling into a vicious cycle of an overly picky band(member) wanting revision after revision trying to get a sound that might not even be possible with what has been recorded. In essence they will get a lot of hours out of your flat rate. So here is how to fix that problem....
Now this is only for the flat rate "alone" mixing. If it's by the hour, fine. You make more money the more picky they are.

Here is what I mean for a graduated flat rate (not hourly) pay scale:

(low prices for example only)
1st mix = $10 = $10
2nd mix = $10 + $0 = $10
3rd mix = $10 + $3 = $13
4th mix = $10 + $3 +$3 = $16
5th mix = $10 + $3 + $3 + $3 = $19
etc....

Hourly will be at your estimate, and at a constant cost but be sure it will cost them. Also give them an estimate how long a song takes and assure them it will be far smoother doing it alone. Not to mention scheduling, you can mix alone at 3am in your underwear. :p
 
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interesting, thanks for the info

it also depends on how the band behaves, the last band i did was a bunch of stupid kids, they walked in the small studio and said "we're the best band you've ever recorded!!!"

ok, i knew enough, they sucked and worste of all behaved like CUN*s,
i don't allow them to come back

on the other hand i had a band that acted nice, behaved and was really interested in the mix, we spent lots of extra hours together

as i read in a post above: make sure there are RULES, true, i should be a bit more clear about the mixing process even before we begin tracking
 
I'm not a band, but I always sit in on the mix when my engineer mixes my stuff. If an engineer would not let me be present for the mix, that engineer would never get my business, period.

It's my music, it's my money, it's my name on the tracks. I get to sit there.

Ideally, there's a chemistry between engineer and artist, and the mix is a collaboration. The worst situation is when one or another of the parties wants it done "my way or the highway".

At the beginning of each track I try to explain what my concept of the music is, what I am going for. Then I sit back and let my engineer do his magic. I try to keep my mouth shut, although I may comment once in a while, especially if he has hit something I like a lot I make sure he knows that I like that particular direction.

But overall I stay out of it until he is satisfied with his mix. At that point then we listen and I may ask for some changes. Once we are both happy with the track we print it.

I'm sure as an engineer it would be frustrating to have a band of arrogant children in their dictating how they want things. But that's why you charge by the hour, right?
 
it's there crap, if they want the vox louder than i do, whatever.
i try and stop them from hurting themselves, but aside from that i'm open to all suggestions.

and you should be too,
service industry job
 
I would rather mix alone with general guidance from the band as far as the sonic direction they'd like, but as said, it's their money so whatever they want we'll do. But I always advise that the band designate a member for this and not the whole band set in. I warn that mixing by commity is a bad idea. But again, whatever they want, they get.
 
SonicAlbert said:
I'm sure as an engineer it would be frustrating to have a band of arrogant children in their dictating how they want things. But that's why you charge by the hour, right?
Click to expand...

And take deposits. Large deposits.

And never, ever, hand over the finished product until the last dollar is in your hand.
 
personally, i prefer to mix alone and then let the band, or even better 1-2 members, sit in on a "revision" session

however, if the band insists on sitting in for the entire mix session, that's fine with me...but they have to sit and watch, and give input near the end - no "backseat mixing" for me

you also have to either charge by the hour, or put a time limit on how much time will be spent revising the mix before you start to charge by the hour...i've fell into the trap of recording some stuff at a "project rate", and then spent more time nitpicking at the mix than we did tracking
 
I agree with just about every post here so far :eek: :D . There are many good points that all come into play.

it really does depend upon the band/artist, in a couple of ways. First there is their level of knowledge/professionalism. I'd have no problem having Sonic Al sit in on my mixing in a collaborative way, and would probably both prefer and enjoy that. OTOH, "the best band" that earworm is referring to I'd probably want to stay away from the mixing session completly. On the third hand, there are those artists whom I have known for years and have worked with on many occasions. In those cases I pretty much know what they want, and they pretty much trust me to come up with a good mix and leave the work to me.

In all cases, though, no matter which hand they are in, expectations in this regard need to be set from the start, and indicated to at least some degree in the contract or work order. This means an understanding and agreement amongst all parties invoved on just who is going to be wearing the producer's hat(s). If they do leave me alone, then communication is key as to undertanding what they are looking for. I don't want to have to any more remixes than necessary any more than they want to have to tell me to (or pay for).

If they do want to be involved in the decisions - i.e. they want to either be the producer or collaborate on the producing - then I find it's usually best to have them pick one person on their side to wear that hat. If you have a 4 or 5 piece band come into the CR with every one of them trying to decide what sounds good and what doesn't, at the end of the day no one will be happy and nothing will wind up getting done.

So all approaches are valid, IMHO. You just have to figure out which one is ultimately right for the client, explain to them why you believe that's the right approach, come to agreement on the right approach, and do so before the meter even starts.

G.
 
I mix first and then schedule a time for the band to come in and mix as well. So they here my version of the mix and then add what they want ("more me!", usually). It's good to have the whole band so when the drummer keeps saying "more snare" the guitarist can slap him and say it's already TOO loud. Oh and then if the mix comes out bad I just blame it on them. But most bands wouldn't have it any other way, they love deciding that shit.
 
Does the band really want to be there while I'm gating stuff and/or cleaning up breath noises and all that kind of crap?

If that's you're bag, then knock yourself out, but be sure to bring along a magazine or something to do, because there's a lot of stuff I'm going to be doing that isn't going to be particularly fun or exhilerating to watch. :D

Tell the band that, before you schedule a mixdown session, you need to spend at least an hour per track "cleaning stuff up." Then have them come in for the stuff that isn't going to require several bottles of no-doze.

.
 
chessrock said:
Does the band really want to be there while I'm gating stuff and/or cleaning up breath noises and all that kind of crap?
Click to expand...

Really good point, I guess that's what lounges are for! :D
 
chessrock said:
Does the band really want to be there while I'm gating stuff and/or cleaning up breath noises and all that kind of crap?

If that's you're bag, then knock yourself out, but be sure to bring along a magazine or something to do, because there's a lot of stuff I'm going to be doing that isn't going to be particularly fun or exhilarating to watch. :D

Tell the band that, before you schedule a mixdown session, you need to spend at least an hour per track "cleaning stuff up." Then have them come in for the stuff that isn't going to require several bottles of no-doze.

.
Click to expand...

i like people (at least people without much experience) to be around for this so i don't have to worry about trying to explain where the time went, plus i find that the boredom takes the edge off of the excitement, and helps them look at it as work.

and i've dealt with a lot of punk's and brats, but they've never been that big a problem at mix time.
screw it, waste my time. the biggest and most demanding assholes have always taught me the most, and been my biggest accounts (cash wise). go figure.

i'm just the opposite of everyone here, the more (of the band, not friends)
the merrier at mix time for me.
all ears in bitches, tell me what you think/want whatever.

i want to give them the mix they want.

maybe i've just been lucky, the only thing that annoys me is when people start telling me how to eq, but that doesn't happen much and 1/2 the time they are on to something, the other 1/2 of the time you try it and can both quickly decide that it's no good.
 
I've had more positive experiences with this than negative. Having the band gush about how great you're making them sound, and marvel at your "tricks" is like bonus pay, and can make the session fun. Of course there's the impossible to please, more me, "you call that a good drum sound?" sessions, but you can usually see them coming, and I've never needed the money that bad. Once you take the job though, you gotta just lump it unless you agreed ahead.

As an artist, I never booked studio time where I couldn't be involved in the mix, but I always respected the engineer's knowledge. I have had engineers that wanted to spend the first hour on the mix alone, and that's OK.
 
I would love to be able to mix alone but I do feel the band has the right to be the. It's their music/product. Now, I do have rules. No big crowds, hangers'on. Let me ruff the mix in first. This covers transfering tracks to computer, ruffing levels, basic compression/limiting etc. Panning of drums, that kind of stuff. Having said "its their music/product" in return they have to respect the way I work if they want me to be envolved in the project. I explain my method and that it works well and in the end saves them studio time. I have yet to have anyone argue against it. I explain also that the more people in the studio when mixing means more people telling me what to do and what they want and just extends the mix time, and in turn the bill.
 
tarnationsauce2 said:
It took me a long time to get this very thing sorted out. I have devised a method that will usually make all happy.

Beforehand, make sure the band knows these will be the rules. Write it into the contract.

Tell them you will sit with them after all the tracking is done (or when they give you the tracks if they were tracked somewhere else). You want to know what bands inspire them if any, be sure to tell them you don't want to emulate. You just want to get a grasp of what general sound they like. Take notes! Ask about guitar tone, vocal levels, and snare/kick sound. Ask about any ideas they already have such as crossfades, FX, etc.



instruct them to listen to it in their car, ipod, computer, home entertainment system etc. What ever they normally listen to music on. This is good because their ears are "trained" for their own music systems.

Give them the mixes as you complete them, spend the most time on one song, so you can use it as a sort of template for the rest of the songs.

Make sure when you send them the files the song has the revision number in the file name (or on the label of the CD if snail mail). Also make sure they are aware of the current charges.
Click to expand...


Great post! :D
 
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NL5, I do not at all understand this mixing rate. What? So after the 4 th mix it cost more money per hour? No offense, that seems whacky. People I have delt with for the past 20 years would go somewheres else with that kind of scale. I have clients that have gone through 20 mixes of a tune until they are happy. Happy being defined as " well, I guess I dont like that guitar part on the second chorus, kill it" Or, "yeah that organ is just too much". Sometimes it is just an artistic judgement. Why should they be charged a higher rates each time? You are per hour no matter what you are doing. Be it mixing a tune 20 times or mixing 20 different tunes.
 
jmorris said:
NL5, I do not at all understand this mixing rate. What? So after the 4 th mix it cost more money per hour? No offense, that seems whacky. People I have delt with for the past 20 years would go somewheres else with that kind of scale. I have clients that have gone through 20 mixes of a tune until they are happy. Happy being defined as " well, I guess I dont like that guitar part on the second chorus, kill it" Or, "yeah that organ is just too much". Sometimes it is just an artistic judgement. Why should they be charged a higher rates each time? You are per hour no matter what you are doing. Be it mixing a tune 20 times or mixing 20 different tunes.
Click to expand...


It's not my scale. I think I may have misunderstood that part of his post, so I let TS2 reply..........
 
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