Do you think there is more for you to learn about songwriting ?

RokZtaR said:
Any writer who is not constantly learning and evolving is stuck in a rut and likely just writing the same songs over and over again.
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Isn't that what they do in Nashville.....write the same song over and over and over....or haven't you heard any Nashville hits of the last 10-15 years?

I got nothing against writing for the general public and trying to manufacture marketable music if that's your goal...but I wouldn't take the position that having a wider audience makes you a better songwriter.
Look at the Bieber fans. Millions and millions of screaming little girls eating that shit up as fast as Beiber can churn it out....but honestly, how many "really great songs" has he done????

Now, if you want to only measure great songwriting by sales....OK, that's your choice, and again, nothing wrong with wanting to sell your music. I think most songwriters would not object to lots of people wanting to buy their music....but that's something different from just talking about good songwriting.
I'm not saying everything that comes out of Nashville is crap....but that is currently THE cookie cutter songwriting capitol of the world, and most of what they do is just try to bake a better cookie, but the cookie template is pretty much the same and so predictable, and has been used for many, many, many songs that have come out of Nashville....so I wouldn't really say that they are constantly evolving, unless you want to talk about how Nashville has turned to Rock, R&B abd even Hip Hip in an effort to come up with something "new"...but that's just putting a different kind of topping on the same old cookie. I wouldn't call it evolution in songwritting....more like trying to rebrand and repackage the same product.
 
Glad the pool is once again open! Like most things in life, in songwriting there is no absolutes. Some songwriters in Nashvegas do the writers nights, seminars, co-writing thing, and some do not. Let's try to keep all the personal attacks to a minimum. Let's try not to tell others that they are wrong. Just because they disagree with your viewpoint doesn't mean they are wrong. It just means they don't agree with you. This subject is subjective, not objective, so let's keep that in mind. Also, I think that we'd all agree that we're all here because we have a deep love of music and recording. No dunking! LOL!
 
miroslav said:
Isn't that what they do in Nashville.....write the same song over and over and over....or haven't you heard any Nashville hits of the last 10-15 years?

I got nothing against writing for the general public and trying to manufacture marketable music if that's your goal...but I wouldn't take the position that having a wider audience makes you a better songwriter.
Look at the Bieber fans. Millions and millions of screaming little girls eating that shit up as fast as Beiber can churn it out....but honestly, how many "really great songs" has he done????

Now, if you want to only measure great songwriting by sales....OK, that's your choice, and again, nothing wrong with wanting to sell your music. I think most songwriters would not object to lots of people wanting to buy their music....but that's something different from just talking about good songwriting.
I'm not saying everything that comes out of Nashville is crap....but that is currently THE cookie cutter songwriting capitol of the world, and most of what they do is just try to bake a better cookie, but the cookie template is pretty much the same and so predictable, and has been used for many, many, many songs that have come out of Nashville....so I wouldn't really say that they are constantly evolving, unless you want to talk about how Nashville has turned to Rock, R&B abd even Hip Hip in an effort to come up with something "new"...but that's just putting a different kind of topping on the same old cookie. I wouldn't call it evolution in songwritting....more like trying to rebrand and repackage the same product.
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That's absolutely 10000% correct. Nothing is more trite, formulaic, and cliche as "Nashville" writing. Quality doesn't matter there, sales does. If that's where the bar is set, then songwriting has officially gone to fucking shit.

It's sad too, because there are some fantastic musicians in Nashville, they're just all stuck playing really boring sterile cookie-cutter songs.
 
First... Greg, I don't know what you're issue is but you're a d!ck. I wasn't talking to you so relax. I read the posters question and answered it without reading the entire thread. And if I had read your post, there's no way I'd respond after seeing how you've hijacked pretty much every thread on here with your sh!t with this Barry guy. I haven't been here in a long time due to time constraints, but after coming back its pretty f'in sad to see tons of great threads being reduced to verbal waste. In my opinion, you both should be banned... this garbage is not why this forum was created. You respond to me directly again in an offensive way and I just wont respond... no time for this sh!t.

Miroslav, there is tons of great music coming out of Nashville at the moment that isn't only country. However, I am the type to prefer a more pop sound.
 
Greg_L said:
Nothing is more trite, formulaic, and cliche as "Nashville" writing.
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Wow, talk about stereo-typing!! :eek:

Every genre, written in every town has its share of trite, formulaic and cliché songs. In fact, you can go as far to say every song that fits neatly into a genre is formulaic and cliché. That's what makes it a genre.

And you can't blame the songwriters or musicians for the cookie-cutter songs. That falls squarely on the music buyers; the 16 - 35 yr olds.
 
RokZtaR said:
Miroslav, there is tons of great music coming out of Nashville at the moment that isn't only country. However, I am the type to prefer a more pop sound.
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Yeah...because Nashville has become the music *biz* capitol of the world.
New York and LA had their golden years and still have plenty of music production going on, but most of the *biz* is happening in Nashville, and that's why you have much more than just Country coming out of there, but a lot of the other styles are also applying the Nashville/Country sales model to their stuff...and with that, a more formulaic approach to songwriting.
The focus is 110% in how to produce music that will sell to the masses.

As I said, I'm not against the notion of selling music, and I'm also more into the Pop/Rock stuff too rather than some "lofty", artsy, music-for-musicians kind of stuff. I wouldn't complain if a song of mine got picked up by some Nashville singer and it turned into a Nashville hit....but all I'm saying is, don't look to Nashville as though it's the hub of any real cutting edge, art-focused music. There, even the "artsy" stuff is dressed up mainly to sell...it has that "show biz" sheen to it, and it's predictable.
Musicians/singers go to Nashville to be "discovered" and to become marketable....which is fine if that's your goal, but I wouldn't confuse that with any focus on the evolution of music. Nashville is a music factory....that's it for the most part, but I did also say that not everything that comes out of Nashville is crap, as every music center has a wide variety of styles to offer, and not everyone is just looking to be the next Beiber or Swift.

That said, I do agree with Greg that there are a lot of great musicians there, and the perfomances are much better than a lot of the songwriting. Nashvillle has always been know for it's VERY formulaic approach to songwritting and recording....going back to the '50s.
 
Chili said:
Every genre, written in every town has its share of trite, formulaic and cliché songs. In fact, you can go as far to say every song that fits neatly into a genre is formulaic and cliché. That's what makes it a genre.
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I made this point a few times a few years back. I think Miroslav started a thread that posed the question, are there certain characteristics inherent in particular genres of music ? I thought it had the makings of a great thread but for some reason, it never went far. I tried to resurrect it a couple of years later and it still wasn't something that the members went for.
But I don't see how the conclusion can be avoided. Nobody would call a song with a beautifully sung melody rap. Why ? Because there are certain ingredients in a rap song ~ in every rap song. Not many would call a slow but angry acoustic guitar and piano ballad punk. Why ? Because there are recognizable elements in punk that have not really included sweet acoustic guitar and piano balladry. And so on and so forth.
While you could argue that someone that only writes one style or genre of music has lots to learn about songwriting, I'd say the opposite if that person is content with what they write and how they write and they're sufficiently experienced.
 
The thing is this: the general public thinks that the songs they hear on the radio coming out of Nashvegas are the best songs in Nashvegas. That is not true. There are great songs in Nashvegas that the general public will never hear. And that's shame.
 
True dat! Lol.

From heading down there once in awhile and immersing myself in the open mics and live music scene, I can say there is a ton of great music being written and played. Also keep in mind that great songs sound very different from when its performed by the writer vs once the label/producer gets their hands on it. The lyrical content and basic melody are still there but the whole feel of the song can change once the majors sculpt it into a sound they think will sell.
 
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