Do you really buy that expensive recording software?

[fraserhutch]

Then you didn't read my statement! I clearly said I nabbed Sonar, Protools, etc. from P2P. I have tried them all. N-track does everything the other do.
Question is, have you tried it? Would seem YOUR statement is just flatout wrong. Also, what makes the others "Major"? The cost?

No one wants to get in a feature argument with you. If it works for you, use it. All the power to you. And you are welcome to your opinion that it does everything as well as the "major" packages. As we are welcome to the contrary opinion.

If you do not find the cost of an application justified, you are free to not purchase it. You are NOT free to pirate it. It's great that N-Tracks makes you happy. Go make great music. Personally, I did try it, did not really like it, and I feel I get more for my money with Cubase and Sonar (both of which I am a registered user of). But that's me. The wonderful thing about it all is that you may not have my needs or inclinations, and no one is forcing you to use what I use.

 

[Toker41]

What was it that you didn't like about it? What was it that it doesn't do? What is it that makes the other worth the price, over N-track?

Also, I only downloaded the others to try each one. It was research...not theft. I paid for the one I liked. I find that "trial" versions that are offered by these companies do not always (if ever) give a true example of the experience one will have with the product.

...and this is not an argument, it's just shop talk.
However, your statement was nothing short of arrogant. If you are going to make such a bold statement like "you are flat out wrong", please back it up with some fact...not opinion. So, again, I ask, what didn't you like about it? What didn't it do that the others do? How was I wrong?
If I am missing something, I would like to be enlightened.
I am open minded on the matter, and certainly don't claim to know everything. So, please elaborate.

 

[fraserhutch]

What was it that you didn't like about it? What was it that it doesn't do? What is it that makes the other worth the price, over N-track?

I will not get into feature arguments on software because I believe that every package has its place, and what works for me may not work for you and vice-versa. To be perfectly honest, I do not care enough to try and convert you to a given package. If you think what you are using is as good as any other package, use it. No skin off my back. I have never said othewise.

However, your statement was nothing short of arrogant. If you are going to make such a bold statement like "you are flat out wrong", please back it up with some fact...not opinion. ...blah, blah, blah....

Please be careful in your attribution in your quotes - I never said you were "flat out wrong", that was someone else. If you are goi9ng to slam someone, at lease be careful enough to get your facts straight.

 

[Toker41]

Hhhmmm....You are right. I did get the wrong guy. My mistake. It would seem that you jumped in the middle of my response to somebody else's rather vauge, somewhat arrogant response to me.

Anyway, I'm not trying for a "feature argument". If there is something I have missed then I really would like to know. That is all. Isn't that what this site is all about? It's not about pushing one or the other programs.
Now since you don't seem to care to share any information you might (or might not) have on the matter, kindly let Gigonova elaborate on his comment. Like I said, I would like to DISCUSS the possibility that there is something that I missed that makes the other programs worth the extra money. If I am wrong (which happens from time to time), then I would like it explained to me exactly how I am wrong with examples. I believe it is relavent to the thread.

 

[kedman]

Also, I only downloaded the others to try each one. It was research...not theft. I paid for the one I liked. I find that "trial" versions that are offered by these companies do not always (if ever) give a true example of the experience one will have with the product.
.

This is so true, I find it strange that you spend your time downloading a trial version and it's so disabled as to make it worthless.
I tend to think that most people will try the stuff and buy what suits them and stay with it.
I note you don't get a refund on the software if it doesnt work/suit you. Most other buisness's will allow this.

 

[fraserhutch]

Hhhmmm....You are right. I did get the wrong guy. My mistake. It would seem that you jumped in the middle of my response to somebody else's rather vauge, somewhat arrogant response to me.

Anyway, I'm not trying for a "feature argument". If there is something I have missed then I really would like to know. That is all. Isn't that what this site is all about? It's not about pushing one or the other programs.
Now since you don't seem to care to share any information you might (or might not) have on the matter, kindly let Gigonova elaborate on his comment. Like I said, I would like to DISCUSS the possibility that there is something that I missed that makes the other programs worth the extra money. If I am wrong (which happens from time to time), then I would like it explained to me exactly how I am wrong with examples. I believe it is relavent to the thread.

It's not that I don't care to share, I am not going to hijack this thread. You want feature arguments, take it to the "Which software you use to make audio recording". What you are asking is NOT relevant to this thread. IMHO.

 

[Toker41]

I disagree. I find it totally relevant in the sense that if the programs can be produced cheaper with all the same features, then maybe manufactures should consider that the price of the product is directly connected to the degree of piracy, and maybe by cutting prices they could make up the difference on the amount of piracy it could potentially save them. However, if the higher priced programs do something the lower priced one does, then maybe they simply can't produce the same quality product for less. Hence my question, what do the "major" programs do that N-track does not?

Now, since I do not see the word "moderator" attached to your name anywhere, I will continue to pursue it here, although it seems to be a dead thread now, (thanks in part to the hijacking you seem to have created here...strange how we become what we seek to destroy) . You are free to not read what you do not like, and not take part in any part of it you do not like.
Have a nice day

 

[fraserhutch]

I disagree. I find it totally relevant in the sense that if the programs can be produced cheaper with all the same features, then maybe manufactures should consider that the price of the product is directly connected to the degree of piracy, and maybe by cutting prices they could make up the difference on the amount of piracy it could potentially save them. However, if the higher priced programs do something the lower priced one does, then maybe they simply can't produce the same quality product for less. Hence my question, what do the "major" programs do that N-track does not?

Now, since I do not see the word "moderator" attached to your name anywhere, I will continue to pursue it here, although it seems to be a dead thread now, (thanks in part to the hijacking you seem to have created here...strange how we become what we seek to destroy) . You are free to not read what you do not like, and not take part in any part of it you do not like.
Have a nice day

Once again you misread what someone else read. I am not trying to moderate what you are posting, I am indicating why *I* do not want to start that conversation here. I never asked you to stop talking about it.

If this is a dead thread and you believe I have contributed to killing it, please indicate how you have come to that conclusion. The only thing I have posted about is my stand against piracy which is directly related to this thread. I am not interested in pursuing a feature comparison here because I feel that it is not relevant to the discussion, hence the IMHO. Is that too hard to grasp? Or have you fried too many brain cells.?

 

[Toker41]

Wow, you really have some control issues.
Also...
...there are many brands on the market that make a really good tasting decafe...
...you seem a bit stressed.

Also: Toker <---128 IQ with plenty of brain cells firing. Don't be fooled by the name, or so quick to stereo type.

Now...

You managed to hijack this thread simply by posting your objection to the course it was taking, over and over again instead of just letting it go. If you didn't want to take part in the way it was going, maybe you should have simply stayed out of it. You now have a bunch of post on the thread that are not related to the subject. Honestly, it seems to me that you were simply baiting it.


I would like to continue this, but the sign over your cage clearly says "Please, do not feed the troll".

again....Have a nice day

P.S. I'm done with you on this matter, but expect a "last word" from you on it, because that is one of the things control freaks do.

 

[Toker41]

Too funny! Control freaks are so predictable.

 

[fraserhutch]

Wow, you really have some control issues.

*I* have control issues? LOL.

Also: Toker <---128 IQ with plenty of brain cells firing. Don't be fooled by the name, or so quick to stereo type.

You certainly don't display this. And if you jumped to the conclusion that I was stereotyping, you're a moron.

You managed to hijack this thread simply by posting your objection to the course it was taking, over and over again instead of just letting it go.

I see YOU won't let it go. Now I am taking issue with YOU. I made one post indicating the existence of a more appropriate thread. I don't care if you go there or not. That a feature comparision is relevant to the topic is based upon the premise that "given that program X gives me everything that program Y does, but costs much more, then I am justified in pirating it." That is such sanctimonious BS, and I don't buy it. If you you are as intelligent as you say you are, you should be able to grasp how specious that argument is. AND my statements were DIRECTLY relevant to the topic. And that is all I have to say on the topic.

If you didn't want to take part in the way it was going, maybe you should have simply stayed out of it. You now have a bunch of post on the thread that are not related to the subject. Honestly, it seems to me that you were simply baiting it.

Whoa there, boy. I never objected to the course the thread was taking, where the hell do you get that?
I responded to YOUR bait to me here:

Now since you don't seem to care to share any information you might (or might not) have on the matter....

And indicated why I didn't want to get into this in this thread. So stop being a jackass, and I'll leave it alone.

P.S. I'm done with you on this matter, but expect a "last word" from you on it, because that is one of the things control freaks do.

That is such passive-aggressive BS as well.
Who am I to disappoint you? Now it is MY turn to say I will ntop repond to further posts on this matter.

 

[Toker41]

Still dealing with the control issues, I see. You might want to try some anger management, also.
Plus, there are some really good meds for OCD these days

Can we get back to the subject?

To anyone that feels it's relevant:

What makes the "major" programs worth THAT much more than programs like N-Track. What do they do that the lower priced programs don't that make it worth the money? Those of you that download pirate versions, do you do it because of the high price of the software, or do you do it just because you can? If the price was more "reachable" to the average joe, would you pay for it? Those that "swipe" it from the net haven't really given many reasons why they don't, or won't pay for it.

 

[kedman]

Time to leave a good thread, shame

This was looking good, with some honest comments.
Who does moderate this?
Cheers
Bob

 

[distortedrumble]

its time to let this one go...buy the expensive stuff or use the demos

 

[XLR]

What makes the "major" programs worth THAT much more than programs like N-Track. What do they do that the lower priced programs don't that make it worth the money?... what about piracy...

God, what a touchy subject.

I've used Cubase and Wavelab for a long time, and added N-Track a year ago. I'm a music teacher and some of my students were using N-Track, so I wanted to have it in my studio to help them with editing and processing questions. Tried the demo and liked the simplicity of its visuals and control. I don't know it quite as well as Cubase but it can do everything I need. It's just a little quirkier than Cubase. Use them both on different machines. Wavelab is in a class by itself IMO. It's just a finely made tool that's so well thought out it becomes an extention of your brain. I've used Audacity (freeware) and it didn't compare.

I bought all the software. I originally bought Cubase because the guy who built my DAW included it in the system he was making for me. If I were to set up a new computer today I'd be tempted to go with N-Track instead.

My attitude about copyrights and piracy changed some when I put out my first CD in '96. It was in the local stores and most of the people who knew me went and bought one. But when occasionally someone would ask to borrow a CD to make a copy it made me crazy. Wasn't the money, it was ... I don't know, maybe depersonalization of the performer. Anyway, it gave me a different perspective on piracy than I'd had before, based on how much work it is to create something of your own and get it out there in the marketplace.

Tim

 

[teddyastuffed]

i dunno if this was mentioned earlier (as i dont have the patience to read 14 pages of posts on the same thing -_-), but the whole piracy vs actual buyers dilemma is just a vicious cycle.

lets start from the of my hypothetical, yet probably true senario. a business starts up and releases software that costs $50. people buy it and are content with results. the company raises prices because they figure they can sell it for more money and still have people buy it. price is now $100. some people buy it, some people dont. the ones who dont break down and fall to piracy. now, the company is losing sales and losing profit at the same time, so they must raise their prices. its now $200 for the same program, so more people start pirating and the company keeps raising prices.

im a firm believer that my theory (not really MY theory, but u understand) of a vicious cycle is why programs like cubase sx3 are $600 (and thats y i have cubase se -_- im poor).

 

[Giganova]

I think you are dead on, teddyastuffed. Also, the market for that kinda software is rather small, so piratry really hits the companies fast (unlike MS products which sell millions and millions of they Office packages, for example).

 

[Dracon]

lets start from the of my hypothetical, yet probably true senario. a business starts up and releases software that costs $50. people buy it and are content with results. the company raises prices because they figure they can sell it for more money and still have people buy it. price is now $100. some people buy it, some people dont. the ones who dont break down and fall to piracy. now, the company is losing sales and losing profit at the same time, so they must raise their prices. its now $200 for the same program, so more people start pirating and the company keeps raising prices.

I'm not sure I agree with your scenario or the reason why companies charge more money.

However, there is plenty of software out there (especially for Home Studios), that is inexpensive and let's you do 90% of what a professional studio is doing.

One example is the Magix Music Studio 2005 deLux which retails for $70, and their even more affordable version is the Magix Music Studio 2005 which I think is like have ($40 or $45).
I own the old version Magix Audio Studio 7 and it looks and feels the same as Samplitude ($1,200 Recording Software). I can record with Magix Audio Studio 7, I can use plugins, it comes with a built in mixer, and a few effects like Reverb, Echo, Compression, and EQ. I can cut and past audio files, I can split stereo files, I can record in mono, I can record upto 24 tracks at one time, and I can even record MIDI if I want to.

I mean I can do all that for an old software program that I paid $14.99, and it came with MIDI Studio 7 where I can make Trance, Techno, or use whatever kind of music I want. I'm not a professional, I'm not going to record any big name artists. If a recording studio put this software in their computers it would probably sound the same than Sonar4, Cubase or whatever other software.

I don't have to purchase the software that costs lots of mula. Professional Studios are committed to either Sonar4 or Cubase because that is their legacy software, they know how to use it, and they already have thousands invested in the old version, so they can upgrade for a few hundred bucks.

Piracy is stealing, no matter which way you look at it. Does it happen? Yes. However, it's like shop lifting. If you shoplift and try to justifying that you could not afford the item and that's why you shoplifted you still go to jail.

You do not need Cubase, Reason, any expensive software. There is very inexpensive software like the one I mentioned, and it works great. However, if you could afford a computer, monitors, a mixer or pre-amp, and then you tell me that you cannot afford CakeWalk Homestudio. Please, that's just an excuse.

If you are a Pro or Semi-Pro Recording Studio there should be no reason for Piracy, since it's a business expense and should have been purchased with your business account.

Wow! Anyway, I went on about this.

 

[XLR]

However, if you could afford a computer, monitors, a mixer or pre-amp, and then you tell me that you cannot afford CakeWalk Homestudio. Please, that's just an excuse

I too think that software piracy is stealing and that it's a black and white issue. But I didn't think that teddyastuffed was trying to justify piracy, he was just describing a sequence that perpetuates it. He said he uses Cubase SE instead of SX due to cost, not that he uses a cracked copy.

Tim

 

[Dracon]

I too think that software piracy is stealing and that it's a black and white issue. But I didn't think that teddyastuffed was trying to justify piracy, he was just describing a sequence that perpetuates it. He said he uses Cubase SE instead of SX due to cost, not that he uses a cracked copy.

Tim

Oh! No! I didn't mean that he was. I apologize if it came through as that. I started to respond to him, to say that I'm not so sure the scenario he describe is the reason why software companies increase the cost of the software. Not that I know the mindset or business practices of a software company.

Then I went off on a tanget about Piracy, and lost all train of thought about my original point.

I have worked on Software development teams, and have seen first hand the amount of time it takes to develop a software, and the amount of effort it takes. It is a lot easier for say Cakewalk to have HomeStudio, HomeStudio XL, Sonar4 Studio, Sonar4 Producer, and every little version in between. The reason for that is obvious, the software is already there and features are added or subtracted (it's easier to add than to take away software features).

In my opinion, I believe that when a new software comes into the market (developed by Joe Nobody in their bedroom) will cost less because it's probably been one or two folks working out of their house. Then the software get's bought by say Cakewalk, and they begin to sell the software (without changes or minor changes). Now, Cakewalk has a much higher operating cost, than the two bedroom developers so the price goes up.

Now, that's not always the case. In some cases large companies come out with new software (created from scratch), and have made a market assessment, but are un-sure whether consumers will purchase the software. So, they release the software at a loss (sorta like a crack dealer giving you the first hit for free), then when the consumer is hooked on their software they offer "upgrades" to the first release at a small price (usually the same cost of the original price( and the new version now is sold at true cost (based on a forecast of what the consumer market will do, based on past sales).

A prime example of the second scenario is the recent release of Tracktion by Mackie. They gave away 'free' software (with an end date) to consumers. Those that like the software, will get hooked on their software and will want the upgrade, and new versions of their software with more features. Those, that do not like the software will never use it anyway. It may seem shady, but it's a common business practices. However, software companies (Microphone companies, cable companies, whomever) offer their product for free to certain 'testers', to use their equipment and keep for free.

Ask Harvey Gerst and he'll tell you. He recently got some cables that JoeMeek developed. This makes sense. The company can write this off as a loss or marketing cost, and they get the product to other people who are going to test and rave or rant about their product.

Anyway, I went off on another diatribe about this issue.

My original point was not to suggest that teddy was a software pirate, and I apologize if that's how it came across.