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ad0lescnts
New member
so hostile...cant we just be uncivilized?
MISTERQCUE
Not Just Anutha Brutha
tyler657recpro said:
Yo' Tyler,no need to be a playa' hater on an individuals gear,especially when said gear provides most excellent results!
Furthermore you are dishing out misinformation and ,at the same time using terminology that's simply not correct! The only time I
use "JUMPERS" is to every now and then,provide a boost from my truck to my neighbors '73 Buick 225.
As far as the Behringer 2000 p/b is concerned, I own one and simply use it for patching my drum-machine,c/d recorders,tape-decks and the like to the board.Nothing more nothing less! The PBX2000 has 24, four position switches on top for norm,unnorm,parallel and open,but cannot be re-wired unless you took the whole,d@mn thing apart and replaced female jacks with Bal'd female jacks of which you mite as well go and invest in something better than the PB2000. If you insist on stating wiring can be done on the 2000, then I will at least have the satisfaction that I know a lil more than at least 1 person on this board. You!
I'm tryin' to give you the benefit of the doubt so come correct or don't come at all!
Peace
Mr.Q
tyler657recpro
Member
I didnt come up with the term "jumpers" Thats how I got confused. IT WAS BRUCE!!!
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mcr
New member
"IT WAS BRUCE!!!", the little boy said to his mommy as she helped to wipe the tears off his eys.
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Downside Studio
New member
Track Rat
Just Your Average Sized Member
......so young and already commited cyber suicide. Tsk, tsk......
VOXVENDOR
New member
Talking sense into this kid is almost as hard as trying to drag a brutha into a starbucks....
(MrQ, im sure you know what I mean)
(MrQ, im sure you know what I mean)
MISTERQCUE
Not Just Anutha Brutha
VOXVENDOR said:Talking sense into this kid is almost as hard as trying to drag a brutha into a starbucks....
(MrQ, im sure you know what I mean)
ROFLMAO!!!!!
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toby.I.
New member
tyler675recpro said:
Is that true?
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toby.I.
New member
ignore that, didn't read any of the above! Is it a Mackie 8 bus blue bear has?
heylow
New member
Tyler,
Dude...if you read this whole post....you look silly. I'm not flaming...I want to help you to understand and maybe see the error of your ways and even help to point you in a new direction, in which to grow and prosper and even make friends here.
I mean....you know more than Bruce will ever know, yet not only do you NOT understand, patchbays, normalling and phase (which are already 3 important studio concepts)....you have never heard the term "jumper."
Bruce was not referring to the cables themselves here....he was referring to the "jumpers." The jumpers are inside. This is standard electronics terminology, not Canadian slang. You have never heard of jumpers on a circuit board, for instance??? Bruce did not "come up" with the tem, as you put it.
Come on man. You look plain silly. If you dont know stuff...its cool. Be nice and learn....where is the problem here? I DO think its funny that you picked one of the few pro studio owners on the board to fuck with, though.....you cant win, my man.
One more thing...
Its a lose-lose situation. Hear me out....you answered a guy and gave him 100 per cent the wrong answer. How nice is that? You are only supposed to answer if you KNOW what you are saying. You GUESSED. Thats FUCKED! Suppose some newbie goes out and blows serious cash on your advice to find out you GUESSED!
Thats why Bruce is on you....that kind of behaviour hurts everyone. This is supposed to be a place where folks learn and help, not throw guesses out to nebies or people who dont know.
Dont tell me.....you are a salseguy at Guitar Center, no?
heylow
Dude...if you read this whole post....you look silly. I'm not flaming...I want to help you to understand and maybe see the error of your ways and even help to point you in a new direction, in which to grow and prosper and even make friends here.
I mean....you know more than Bruce will ever know, yet not only do you NOT understand, patchbays, normalling and phase (which are already 3 important studio concepts)....you have never heard the term "jumper."
Bruce was not referring to the cables themselves here....he was referring to the "jumpers." The jumpers are inside. This is standard electronics terminology, not Canadian slang. You have never heard of jumpers on a circuit board, for instance??? Bruce did not "come up" with the tem, as you put it.
Come on man. You look plain silly. If you dont know stuff...its cool. Be nice and learn....where is the problem here? I DO think its funny that you picked one of the few pro studio owners on the board to fuck with, though.....you cant win, my man.
One more thing...
Its a lose-lose situation. Hear me out....you answered a guy and gave him 100 per cent the wrong answer. How nice is that? You are only supposed to answer if you KNOW what you are saying. You GUESSED. Thats FUCKED! Suppose some newbie goes out and blows serious cash on your advice to find out you GUESSED!
Thats why Bruce is on you....that kind of behaviour hurts everyone. This is supposed to be a place where folks learn and help, not throw guesses out to nebies or people who dont know.
Dont tell me.....you are a salseguy at Guitar Center, no?
heylow
heylow
New member
toby.I. said:
Yes, why?
Have you seen his page? Looks like a nice place to record! Wonder if Tyler would be so nice as to post a link to HIS "studio."
heylow
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toby.I.
New member
yer, looks really nice. lots of good outboard
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sjjohnston
New member
"Phase" in a Patchbay
Not that it matters much, but someone might be reading this thread thinking it contains some information ....
An unbalanced patchbay can't be "out of phase" (by which, I think the original poster intended to refer to reversed polarity to be completely correct). If you connect tip to sleeve, you don't get a reversed-polarity signal, you get no signal at all. The sleeve is connected to ground. If you connect your signal line to ground, it will never make it to where it is supposed to be going. Take a look at a 1/4" connector (or an RCA connector, where it's even more obvious) and look at how the sleeve is connected.
You can invert the polarity of a balanced line, simply by connecting tip to ring, and ring to tip. Depending on what's connected to either end of the line, this could produce a reverse-polarity signal.
(As one writer pointed out, the above doesn't apply if you are connecting speakers to an amplifier, which is an entirely different setup from connecting signal processors, mixers and the like through a patchbay. Does anybody connect speakers to an amplifier through a patchbay intended for line level signals? .... If they do, they should stop.)
Not that it matters much, but someone might be reading this thread thinking it contains some information ....
An unbalanced patchbay can't be "out of phase" (by which, I think the original poster intended to refer to reversed polarity to be completely correct). If you connect tip to sleeve, you don't get a reversed-polarity signal, you get no signal at all. The sleeve is connected to ground. If you connect your signal line to ground, it will never make it to where it is supposed to be going. Take a look at a 1/4" connector (or an RCA connector, where it's even more obvious) and look at how the sleeve is connected.
You can invert the polarity of a balanced line, simply by connecting tip to ring, and ring to tip. Depending on what's connected to either end of the line, this could produce a reverse-polarity signal.
(As one writer pointed out, the above doesn't apply if you are connecting speakers to an amplifier, which is an entirely different setup from connecting signal processors, mixers and the like through a patchbay. Does anybody connect speakers to an amplifier through a patchbay intended for line level signals? .... If they do, they should stop.)
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littledog
New member
Very interesting discussion, guys! I learned something today. Thanks.
Badger
Active member
Re: "Phase" in a Patchbay
Nope if you take two devices that are totally isolated from each other, dont share a common ground(not all devices connect the sleeve to the case), and revers the signal tip-sleeve, sleeve to tip, you will get a signal, just inverted. Were dealing with AC current here(an audio signal is AC current).
This is not a hard situation to come across. For instance, a drum machine running off of a wall wart plugged into your computer in. These devices do not share a common ground, and since AC swings from positive to negative and back again, making the ground the signal and the signal the ground make no differance whatsover(other than being out of phase). My major was electronic engineering. I'm not talking out of my ass here.
Where this breaks down is when you take two devices where the sleeve is connected to the case, and you put them in the same rack. Then they share a common case ground, the rack connects the two cases togeather and the signal on both ends will be shorted to ground.
The signal is a measurment of the differance between the tip and the sleeve, and by reversing the wires, to where tip goes to sleeve and sleeve goes to tip, you still have an electrical differance, just negative is now positive and vice versa. Hence the signal is flipped and therefore 180 of of phase. As long as that is the only connection you will still have signal.
sjjohnston said:
Nope if you take two devices that are totally isolated from each other, dont share a common ground(not all devices connect the sleeve to the case), and revers the signal tip-sleeve, sleeve to tip, you will get a signal, just inverted. Were dealing with AC current here(an audio signal is AC current).
This is not a hard situation to come across. For instance, a drum machine running off of a wall wart plugged into your computer in. These devices do not share a common ground, and since AC swings from positive to negative and back again, making the ground the signal and the signal the ground make no differance whatsover(other than being out of phase). My major was electronic engineering. I'm not talking out of my ass here.
Where this breaks down is when you take two devices where the sleeve is connected to the case, and you put them in the same rack. Then they share a common case ground, the rack connects the two cases togeather and the signal on both ends will be shorted to ground.
The signal is a measurment of the differance between the tip and the sleeve, and by reversing the wires, to where tip goes to sleeve and sleeve goes to tip, you still have an electrical differance, just negative is now positive and vice versa. Hence the signal is flipped and therefore 180 of of phase. As long as that is the only connection you will still have signal.
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sjjohnston
New member
Re: Re: "Phase" in a Patchbay
Maybe I'm missing something here. On my computer soundcard (an RCA connection), the sleeve is connected to the computer's chassis, which (I think?) is actually connected to the wall outlet's third pin, and thence to the real honest-to-god ground (aka "earth"). If I connect the signal from a drum machine (whatever its ground reference is) to this, I don't see how anything will happen (anything interesting, anyway). Am I misunderstanding how the computer is wired?
Bdgr said:
Maybe I'm missing something here. On my computer soundcard (an RCA connection), the sleeve is connected to the computer's chassis, which (I think?) is actually connected to the wall outlet's third pin, and thence to the real honest-to-god ground (aka "earth"). If I connect the signal from a drum machine (whatever its ground reference is) to this, I don't see how anything will happen (anything interesting, anyway). Am I misunderstanding how the computer is wired?
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ad0lescnts
New member
what the hell is a patchbay anyway?? i know what they look like and shit.. but.. i guess i found myself reading your guys' silly arguments rather than the discussion itself!
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sjjohnston
New member
ad0lescnts said:
This might be helpful ... or it might not:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...elm=82peco%24qgn%241%40nnrp1.deja.com&rnum=11
Which reminds me ... since the Behringer patchbay (which supposedly reverses the signal polarity) connects all the sleeves to it's chassis, how could it reverse the polarity of all the signals running into it?
Scooter B
Member
As Bruce previously pointed out...the Behringer is an UNBALANCED Tip/Sleeve (no ring) as opposed to a balanced TRS jack (Tip/ Ring/Sleeve).
The individual who stated that the Behringer was wired "out of phase" seems to have drawn great suspicion about his knowledge and maturity levels. Taking into accout several others have sounded in to say they have used them with no problems I would discount that comment.
It also seem the same individual associated "out of phase" with speakers being the same as reversed polarity/out of phase with strictly electronic signals going through a patchbay wich is typically to and from effects, preamps, mixing boards and your recording media.
If the confused individual was using a patch bay to run a signal to his speakers there is no telling what else was going on.
The individual who stated that the Behringer was wired "out of phase" seems to have drawn great suspicion about his knowledge and maturity levels. Taking into accout several others have sounded in to say they have used them with no problems I would discount that comment.
It also seem the same individual associated "out of phase" with speakers being the same as reversed polarity/out of phase with strictly electronic signals going through a patchbay wich is typically to and from effects, preamps, mixing boards and your recording media.
If the confused individual was using a patch bay to run a signal to his speakers there is no telling what else was going on.