Do Lyrics Even Matter?

[HapiCmpur]

Back in the 80s Bruce Cockburn came out with a tune call "Rocket Launcher".

He was saying that if the U.S. poured more arms into these poor countries, we'd make things 100 times worse. At least that was my opinion of it.

The drummer in my band, who was pro-Reagan (although he didnt' admit it often) had an opposite impression.

You win that bet, JR. Here's an interview Cockburn did for The Progressive a few months ago: http://progressive.org/?q=node/282&PHPSESSID=5b5278670bd2116f1b2182bb3aef3de8

But does it matter?

I really doubt it. And I think Cockburn shot himself in the foot with that rocket launcher when he started analyzing his own lyrics for the audience. I wonder if your drummer would still like the song (or Cockburn, for that matter) if he knew about this.

 

[HapiCmpur]

ms, you're killing me with your schizophrenic avatar changes.

So who's the guy in the mask? (And don't say Zapata.)

 

[Folkie]

Lyrics aren't poetry. They don't exist for their own sake. They are there to provide a connection for your audience -and to help them remember how the song goes. If the audience is listening, hopefully you are telling a story- at least something for the listener to hold on to.
-C

SC, I agree mostly with what you are saying, but I'd like to point out that some lyrics actually are poetry. One can set a poem to music and make it a song (the Star Spangled Banner immediately comes to mind as a reasonably well known example.) Not always the case, obviously, but

Garnet Rodgers took a poem from Henry Lawson, put a great melody to it, and ended up with a pretty damn good song. He had to adjust the poem minimally here and there to fit the music (meter in most songs is, of course, tremendously important.

The original poem and a link to the tune is here:

http://ahistoricality.blogspot.com/2005/07/thursday-lyric-after-all.html

And since the poem/lyrics are really good:

After All
Words by Henry Lawson
Music by Garnet Rogers

The brooding ghosts of this dark night
Are gone from wood and Town.
My spirit revives in the morning breeze,
Though it died when Sun went down.
The river is wide, the stream is strong,
And the grass is green and tall.
And I fain would think that this world of ours,
Is a good world, after all.

The light of passion in dreamy eyes,
The page of truth well read,
The glorious thrill in a heart grown cold,
And a spirit once thought dead.
The song that goes to a comrade's heart,
The tear of pride let fall,
My heart grows brave, and the world, to me,
Is a good world, after all.

Let our enemies go by their own dull paths,
Let theirs be doubt and shame.
The man who's bitter against the world
Has only himself to blame.
Let the darkest side of the past stay dark,
And only good recall,
For I must believe that the world, to me,
Is a good world, after all.

It may be that I saw too plain,
It may be I was blind,
But I'll keep my face to the morning light,
Though the Devil stand behind.
Though the Devil may stand behind my back
I’ll not see his shadow fall?
And I'll read, in the light of the Morning Star
Of a good world, after all.

Rest, for your arms are weary, Love,
You drove the worst away.
And the ghost of the man that I might have been
Is gone from my heart today.
We'll live our life for the good it brings,
'Till our twilight shadows fall.
Oh, my heart grows brave, and the world, to me,
Is a good world, after all.

 

[Jack Russell]

Take a study of a classic Radiohead tune, Subterranean Homesick Alien.

First, note the use of the title. A good title unlocks the meaning of the song by adding a new dimension. In this case, there are (at least) two meanings of the title: one is a reference to Bob Dylan's Subterranean Homesick Blues, which adds meaning to the song which is otherwise lost. If Yorke tried to incorporate that into the already complex lyrics, it would sound cheeky, but it's perfect as a title.

Second, the change to the word "Alien" relates it to the song both in respect of the narrator and the subject:

I wish that they'd swoop down in a country lane
Late at night when I'm driving
Take me on board their beautiful ship
Show me the world as I'd love to see it

Later in the song we learn that Yorke is the alien, not the actual aliens. Genius.

Pay attention to the title. Make it more clever and your lyrics less so.

Excellent point. The title can make or break a song. My working title of the moment is "U-571", since the song was inspired by the wreck of the sub U-571. However, sticking with U-571 as the title would be a bit too obvious; thus I'm leaving that as a thing to change later when I finish.

I didn't realize that the radiohead song's title goes back to the the Dylan tune. Reading over the lyrics for "Subterranean Homesick Alien", though, I have a different conclusion. (Here are the complete lyrics

The breath of the morning,
I keep forgetting the smell of the warm summer air.
I live in a town where you can't smell a thing,
you watch your feet for cracks in the pavement.
Up above aliens hover, making home movies for the folks back home,
of all these weird creatures who lock up their spirits,
drill holes in themselves and live for their secrets.
They're all up-tight

I wish that they'd swoop down in a country lane
Late at night when I'm driving
Take me on board their beautiful ship
Show me the world as I'd love to see it
I'd tell all my friends but they'd never believe me
they'd think I'd finally lost it completely.
I'd show them the stars and the meaning of life, They'd shut me away
but I'd be allright. I'm just up-tight.

I don't think the narrator has become an alien, I think he was abducted. he is still what he was before, except that now his is aware/enlightened (uptight).

Or you could also conclude that the narrator is an insect (can insects smell?...watch your feet for cracks in the pavement) and that the aliens hovering are humans.

 

[Folkie]

Just to add another example of differing meanings the listener gets--you get different meanings at different times. Last night I was driving home and the radio played "We Gotta Get Outta This Place" by Eric Burdon. I was struck by the fact that

"We gotta get outa this place
If it's the last thing we ever do.
We gotta get outa this place
Girl there's a better life for me and you"

has a religious tone to it, if you want to interpret it that way. Since, literally, "the last thing we ever do" IS "get outta this place", and "a better life" being an "afterlife"
it all seemed to fit. I had always thought of it as leaving the work-a-day culture or the city, not leaving life in general.

Different times, different interpretations.....

 

[Jack Russell]

You win that bet, JR. Here's an interview Cockburn did for The Progressive a few months ago: http://progressive.org/?q=node/282&PHPSESSID=5b5278670bd2116f1b2182bb3aef3de8

I really doubt it. And I think Cockburn shot himself in the foot with that rocket launcher when he started analyzing his own lyrics for the audience. I wonder if your drummer would still like the song (or Cockburn, for that matter) if he knew about this.

Yeah, that is why we dropped it. The dummer didn't want to play a 'war protest' song, after all, when he thought it over. He was all about Ollie North and all that stuff.

 

[Jack Russell]

Good point about the Animals' tune, Folkie. Sometimes the more simple the lyrics are, the more multileveled the interpretations can be.

Something just came to me as I was reading this thread about lyrics versus poetry. One thing that also has an effect is that songs are a form of oration also. We've all grown up with the experience of microphones and speech. Mics are used by politicians, for public speaking, and singing. So we have ingrained in our psyche that, when we hear a vocalist, we think of a person on a stage holding a mic and belting it out. When we play air guitar in the shower, we will hold a bar of soap up and sing into it.

Thus oration, the effect of the spoken word versus the written word, also adds its twist to the meaning of words in music.

Example: Think of the difference between the meaning of the words that George Carlin writes against what he speaks.

 

[Folkie]

Something just came to me as I was reading this thread about lyrics versus poetry. One thing that also has an effect is that songs are a form of oration also. We've all grown up with the experience of microphones and speech. Mics are used by politicians, for public speaking, and singing. So we have ingrained in our psyche that, when we hear a vocalist, we think of a person on a stage holding a mic and belting it out. When we play air guitar in the shower, we will hold a bar of soap up and sing into it.

Thus oration, the effect of the spoken word versus the written word, also adds its twist to the meaning of words in music.

Example: Think of the difference between the meaning of the words that George Carlin writes against what he speaks.

There is also the use of homonyms--words that sound the same but have different meanings. A lyric line that uses a homonym can give a totally different interpretation to a song when heard that couldn't be done with reading the written word. Sometimes songwriters do this on purpose, I imagine (I have, anyway. Then I don't know which one to write down on paper. )

I can't think of any specific examples of this, but did anybody see the commercials where someone is singing in their car with a completely different line than was written, but sounded similar? My favorite is from "Bad Moon Rising" where the actual lyrics are "There's a bad moon on the rise" but the person heard it (and is singing it) as "There's a bathroom on the right."
And the Beatles' "Ticket to Ride" lyric becomes "She's got a tick in her eye."
For years in the Cascades "Rhythm of the Falling Rain" I heard the line "The only girl I care about is gone away" as "The only girl I care about is Donna Wade"--never made sense till I finally listened to the damn song.

 

[Jack Russell]

Right!

And there is the Hendrix tune with "s'cuz me, while I kiss the sky". This can be sung as "s'cuz me while I zip my fly" or "s'cuz me, while I kiss this guy."

 

[Folkie]

Right!

And there is the Hendrix tune with "s'cuz me, while I kiss the sky". This can be sung as "s'cuz me while I zip my fly" or "s'cuz me, while I kiss this guy."

Actually, that was one example I was trying to pull up--it just wouldn't focus.

 

[Folkie]

Another fun thing with songs is parodies. Wierd Al Yankovick being the prime example. Same tune, same arrangements, completely (and hilariously) different lyrics.

That right there tells me lyrics do matter.

And when you think that "House of the Rising Sun", "Amazing Grace", and the theme from Gilligan's Island can all be interchanged..... (Try it sometime at a gig--Nice intro to "House" then start singing the lyrics to "Gilligan"--usually gets a laugh.)

 

[persondude]

Try singing amazing grace to the tune of a song about a louisiana whore house at church. Prepare to dodge flying objects.

 

[HapiCmpur]

A lyric line that uses a homonym can give a totally different interpretation to a song when heard that couldn't be done with reading the written word.

Good point. And sometimes a word or phase can flip back and forth between two or more "meanings" even in writing, just because of something as simple as an apostrophe. Check out how many mutations Elvis Costello generates for the phrase "God's comic," in his song by that title. It's truly amazing.

 

[HapiCmpur]

"We gotta get outa this place
If it's the last thing we ever do.
We gotta get outa this place
Girl there's a better life for me and you"

has a religious tone to it, if you want to interpret it that way. Since, literally, "the last thing we ever do" IS "get outta this place", and "a better life" being an "afterlife"
it all seemed to fit. I had always thought of it as leaving the work-a-day culture or the city, not leaving life in general.

Different times, different interpretations.....

I think I once read that Mr. Burden explained (foolishly, in my opinion) that he wrote that song about escaping a depressed, working-class town in England, of which there were -- and are -- many. Your interpretation, Folkie, is more nuanced than the artist's interpretation of his own work. And I think that's very cool.

The artist can only copyright the lyrics. The listener owns their meaning.

 

[HapiCmpur]

Another fun thing with songs is parodies. Wierd Al Yankovick being the prime example. Same tune, same arrangements, completely (and hilariously) different lyrics.

That right there tells me lyrics do matter.

Maybe, but how many times do you go back and listen to those songs? Maybe it's just me, but I tire of parodies pretty quickly (even though I enjoy them as much as anybody else the first time through).

Sort of along those lines, I was recently thinking about a song called "Christians and Pagans" by Dar Williams. I love that song, mostly because of its exceedingly clever lyrics. But after the first few listens I was done with it, and I think it's because the "meaning" is too direct, too transparent. There's nothing to go back for. The only time I play it now is when I'm introducing friends to it.

 

[Jack Russell]

The artist can only copyright the lyrics. The listener owns their meaning.

That hits the nail on the head. I totally agree.

In fact, it also transfers over to the visual arts also. I've dabbled a bit as a painter of abstract art. [hmmm....I'll see if I can post an image of one of my pieces...]

I've had several art openings of my work, and people will ask me "what does it mean"? Allong the same lines as what HapiCmpur says, I tell them "it doesn't matter what it means to me, it matters what it means to you. When you buy a piece of art you don't buy the artist with it. And I can't stand forever in your living room next to the piece and explain the meaning to anyone who looks at it. So, you are on your own."

However, having said that, most art buyers will persist and still want you to convey some inner meaning. I believe this allows them to get "a handle" on abstract expressionist art, so that they can then feel like they own it and can relate to it. It doesn't matter to me in the end, as long as I make a sale.

 

[persondude]

sorry, but i just don't get abstract 'art'

 

[famous beagle]

That hits the nail on the head. I totally agree.

In fact, it also transfers over to the visual arts also. I've dabbled a bit as a painter of abstract art. [hmmm....I'll see if I can post an image of one of my pieces...]

I've had several art openings of my work, and people will ask me "what does it mean"? Allong the same lines as what HapiCmpur says, I tell them "it doesn't matter what it means to me, it matters what it means to you. When you buy a piece of art you don't buy the artist with it. And I can't stand forever in your living room next to the piece and explain the meaning to anyone who looks at it. So, you are on your own."

However, having said that, most art buyers will persist and still want you to convey some inner meaning. I believe this allows them to get "a handle" on abstract expressionist art, so that they can then feel like they own it and can relate to it. It doesn't matter to me in the end, as long as I make a sale.

Jack, is that all a painting, or is a collage?

It's very nice! I like it quite a bit.

 

[Jack Russell]

Jack, is that all a painting, or is a collage?

It's very nice! I like it quite a bit.

Thanks. It is a collage and a painting. 30 x 40 inches. Acrylic with black paper and photographs on a gesso-covered artboard.

 

[VSpaceBoy]

... It doesn't matter to me in the end, as long as I make a sale.

What an artist...


I think that is a very nice piece. You definatley have talent.