Do FREE mp3's affect CD sales – ANY THOUGHTS???

[dreamer7]

Calling all fellow sound freaks,

I'm thinking out aloud here and wondering about this, but I can't seem to settle on an answer using only the one brain that I've been given. So I'm throwing this one out to all those of you who download free music from various websites but may also like to buy CDs. Or indeed anyone else who puts their own free mp3's up on Soundclick, MySpace or similar sites.

Suppose a fairly unknown band has a number of tracks as free mp3 downloads, but then after a while they decide to follow a long-time dream and put these out as a professionally pressed CD album. By this I mean that they will have been stamped from a glass master (rather than a laser burn) and have protective laquering applied, plus a litho printed 4-page cover etc. (ie: exactly as you'd buy in any shop).

It would take quite a bit of money and effort to produce this, and then ways would have to be found of selling them all. In the UK no company will produce less than 500 using this process and it would maybe take ages for an unknown band to sell that many unless looked at in terms of quite a few years and lots of relentless marketing.

So, the question I'm asking is this:
If everyone who's interested has already downloaded the tracks as free mp3's, would they bother to buy the 'real' pressed CD that's been lovingly produced when it's released???

Does anyone have any insight on this conundrum

Thanks for reading,
Garden of Surreal Dreams

 

[Mindset]

Calling all fellow sound freaks,

I'm thinking out aloud here and wondering about this, but I can't seem to settle on an answer using only the one brain that I've been given. So I'm throwing this one out to all those of you who download free music from various websites but may also like to buy CDs. Or indeed anyone else who puts their own free mp3's up on Soundclick, MySpace or similar sites.

Suppose a fairly unknown band has a number of tracks as free mp3 downloads, but then after a while they decide to follow a long-time dream and put these out as a professionally pressed CD album. By this I mean that they will have been stamped from a glass master (rather than a laser burn) and have protective laquering applied, plus a litho printed 4-page cover etc. (ie: exactly as you'd buy in any shop).

It would take quite a bit of money and effort to produce this, and then ways would have to be found of selling them all. In the UK no company will produce less than 500 using this process and it would maybe take ages for an unknown band to sell that many unless looked at in terms of quite a few years and lots of relentless marketing.

So, the question I'm asking is this:
If everyone who's interested has already downloaded the tracks as free mp3's, would they bother to buy the 'real' pressed CD that's been lovingly produced when it's released???

Does anyone have any insight on this conundrum

Thanks for reading,
Garden of Surreal Dreams

Well for one, if a band is prepare to spend money to press cd's, than he/she should be prepare to spend money & market. I personally would rather have the original CD at home in my safe keep, and burn a copy for the road. I don't think marketing could be called relentless, it's part of the fun process of getting heard. 500 CD's isn't that hard to push either. If the band is trying to live their life long dream, than they would be doing whatever it takes to push those cd's. My very first 1,000 batch ever done, was gone within' 4 days. I posted up for those 4 days at this one spot where people buy crap at, and sold them all. Anyways, people have to start somewhere right? What I do is drop a couple free mp3's or at least stream them from an upcoming album release, and market the crap out of the album before the album releases, and then just as much as when it releases..... it becomes a factor of if the band really is trying, or just half assing it. Anyways, to answer your question. Me personally, if I liked the artist in the first place, knowing they 'independent' I would most likely buy their cd when it comes out. Also, Free mp3's do effect cd sales.

 

[danny.guitar]

So, the question I'm asking is this:
If everyone who's interested has already downloaded the tracks as free mp3's, would they bother to buy the 'real' pressed CD that's been lovingly produced when it's released???

Does anyone have any insight on this conundrum [/B]

My question is, if you are wanting to sell an album why would you, at the same time, give that album away for free?

Most people can't hear the difference between MP3s and CDs, so it's not like that is an issue. It would come down to whether or not they want to support you.

If your music is really good then I'm sure a lot of people would still buy the CDs. But also some people wouldn't.

I would consider offering a couple good songs from the CD for download, or maybe just short 30 second - 1 minute clips of all the songs.

 

[dreamer7]

My very first 1,000 batch ever done, was gone within' 4 days. I posted up for those 4 days at this one spot where people buy crap at, and sold them all. Anyways, people have to start somewhere right?

Mindset, thanks for your thoughts and advice (and cheers to Danny Guitar also),

I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind giving me the info for the place where you managed to sell 1,000 CD's in 4 days. That's incredible! Most people there might normally buy crap, as you say, but plenty of them must have liked your stuff enough to maybe buy more in the future, and anyway you can't guarantee that everyone is going to like everything.

Do you have a link you could put into your reply?
Thanks
Garden of Surreal Dreams

 

[Mindset]

Mindset, thanks for your thoughts and advice (and cheers to Danny Guitar also),

I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind giving me the info for the place where you managed to sell 1,000 CD's in 4 days. That's incredible! Most people there might normally buy crap, as you say, but plenty of them must have liked your stuff enough to maybe buy more in the future, and anyway you can't guarantee that everyone is going to like everything.

Do you have a link you could put into your reply?
Thanks
Garden of Surreal Dreams

We took our cd's to a place here called Trader's Village, the name of course hence there's a lot of people there selling whatever.... We just set up a booth for $35 a day, and on the weekend, there's usually a few thousand there at any time. We went there 2 weekends. It was a while ago, and our major releases will be in stores. But for near next to nothing compared to major's, it wasn't bad for us.

 

[mjr]

We took our cd's to a place here called Trader's Village, the name of course hence there's a lot of people there selling whatever.... We just set up a booth for $35 a day, and on the weekend, there's usually a few thousand there at any time. We went there 2 weekends. It was a while ago, and our major releases will be in stores. But for near next to nothing compared to major's, it wasn't bad for us.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mindset again.

 

[gullyjewelz]

Mindset - that trader's village . . . is that like a basic "swap meet" or "flea market" or something way different?

 

[mjr]

Mindset - that trader's village . . . is that like a basic "swap meet" or "flea market" or something way different?

http://www.tradersvillage.com/

 

[dreamer7]

Hmmmm, the only problem is that I'm in the UK, so it's a bit of a way to drag my CD's. I thought it may have been a website.

Never mind, I'll think of something when the time comes.

Cheers all,
Garden of Surreal Dreams

 

[dreamer7]

Any more differing thoughts on this question that seems to affect a lot of artists these days?

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

I've got my own thoughts on this matter. Personally, in the market/times we're in right now, I'm trying to play to the kids. Meaning, ~75% of 'em could give a shit about actually owning a CD (iTunes anybody?). Add on top of this the "myspace effect". You're starting out competing with millions of other bands whose material is just as easily accessible as yours.

Personally, I'm gonna give away high-quality versions of all of the songs on my band's next CD, as well as sell 'em on iTunes, as well as have CD's available. The first two options are pretty damn cheap, so why not do 'em? I've got a shitload of other bands out there trying to get the same people to listen to their music; I'm going to make it as easy and effortless as possible for kids to listen to my music as humanly possible.

Sell CD's at your shows!

 

[sonicpsyops]

My two centavos

I've got my own thoughts on this matter. Personally, in the market/times we're in right now, I'm trying to play to the kids. Meaning, ~75% of 'em could give a shit about actually owning a CD (iTunes anybody?). Add on top of this the "myspace effect". You're starting out competing with millions of other bands whose material is just as easily accessible as yours.

Personally, I'm gonna give away high-quality versions of all of the songs on my band's next CD, as well as sell 'em on iTunes, as well as have CD's available. The first two options are pretty damn cheap, so why not do 'em? I've got a shitload of other bands out there trying to get the same people to listen to their music; I'm going to make it as easy and effortless as possible for kids to listen to my music as humanly possible.

Sell CD's at your shows!

Steveh here brings up a good point. I think you want to know your audience or, at least, what age demographic would find your music most appealing. I think it's safe to assume that the younger generations are more technical/computer/Internet saavy, so they would probably prefer to download music into their personal players, iPods, Mp3s etc, and listen to hundreds of songs nonstop rather than 10 to 20 and then have to change the CD. So if the younger generations are your audience, cater to them.

Giving away mp3s as a way to make yourself stand out in a crowded crowd of musicians is a good idea as long as you heavily promote your CD as well. However, I don't know if I would give the entire CD away for free as downloadables. Maybe just a select few tracks. If you selectively give away mp3's you could tell your audience something like, "these kickass songs here are just the tip of the iceberg, wait till you get a load of our CD!!!" Then again, the thing about giving away a select few free mp3's from your CD is that people might think, why would I want to buy the CD when I have the highlights in my mp3 player? The rest of the CD is just filler. People might assume that you used your best songs to hook them in and since they already have your best songs, why buy the rest of the CD?
At least, that's what I would think. I don't know. Does brand loyalty, or band loyalty, play a factor here if you are a new unheard of band?

If you are just starting out and you have no or little fan base, giving away mp3s could be a risky tactic. Elton John could give away his entire new CD as downloadable mp3s and he would still sell millions of CDs. Why? Because he's Elton John. There are people out there who would pay a lot of money just to watch Elton John sip tea. Why? Because he's Elton John. But if Elton John wasn't Elton John and just another myspace musician trying to sell his CDs I think he would be very selective as to which songs from his CD he gives away as mp3s. Perhaps, write an additional two or three songs that are not on the CD and give those away as free mp3s. Then tell your audience, "there's more where that came from!"

But then again, what do I know? I do New Age/Neo-classical/Ambient styled music so I thought that my target audience was a little older and more apt to buying CDs. Well, I seem to be selling more downloads than CDs. At this point, I don't think it would be fair to my fans who paid for downloads to start giving them away for free to somebody else.

Another thing to consider is, do you play gigs? I think most bands that play in front of an audience, sell the majority of their CDs at their live shows. I don't play live which, I think, is why I sell more downloads then CDs.

But then again, I could be right.

 

[cusebassman]

And then again, you are!

Most young'ns will download over buy a CD for the sheer ease of use.

If you are Hell-bent on making CD's, and you are giving away your music free on the Internet, then either give away the CDs at shows, or sell them for whatever it cost to press em... 2 bucks each probably?

Or you could give out flyers that have the web address and such on em, but I feel that is asking too much of most people. If you hand someone a CD, they might pop in the stereo on the drive home... and when they get there, maybe they will either rip the disk or go to the website printed on the disk or the disk's packaging.

If someone were to hand me a flyer at a show? Even if I liked the music, it may slip my mind long enough after I go home to never actually get around to acquiring the music, even if it is free. So, its nice to circulate as many mediums as possible.

For those of us who don't play live much, well, we're all boned

 

[Polska_77]

I have a ton of MP3's plus a bunch of CD's. I NEVER buy a cd that I havn't heard before usually as mp3. But that's just me. There is not so many bands still going that i'm confident about and I only collect listenable cds that I like.
So i think those who buy albums will buy it, those who dont buy cds will find a way to get it free anyway.

 

[Mindset]

Mindset - that trader's village . . . is that like a basic "swap meet" or "flea market" or something way different?

Yeah basically, but there's hundreds upon hundreds of people at any given hour. If I went in there this weekend with 300 cd's, they'll be gone in a day easily. Only problem is, I haven't set up my laptop to scan these sales yet, so they really don't count.

 

[scrouch]

I buy physical CDs as well as digital files. There's only one CD store in the city that carries much that I like so it's normally more convenient to get stuff online. Also lets you get around buying a CD that is 75% filler. RIAA complains a lot about mp3s and the digital market but I think it's extremely good for independant artists. Digital distribution is available for everyone to use and gives you access to markets you could never normally get with physical sales (stores don't carry you if they don't know who you are). Also removes manufacturing and shipping costs. Mp3s decrease CD sales but digital sales increase total revenue for a lot of people.

 

[cusebassman]

mp3s do indeed cut a significant amount of wasted physical material resources out of the picture, which is good.

You would think that, in regard to filler, with the advent of online music technology, that any artist wanting to sell an album would then be forced to write better material. What did the industry do? Get rid of the concept of the album, and start basically releasing singles. Problem solved! Now we can have all crap all the time, but in short, quick bursts, rather than long-awaited, lengthy chunks

 

[Mindset]

On the flip side of the dude 2 steps up, free mp3's, or digital sales for that matter, gives MANY people false hope (as indies etc), thinking that it will actually "help" us out. Leave the mainstream stuff in stores for people to buy, once you take songs from X album and make them downloadable from x celebrity
what makes one think, that it should help them out to?

As average listeners, they'll probably more likely to buy a single mp3 from Pink Floyd, than Blue Moon from some Indie band. Just something to think about. Money might be generated by digital downloads, but that same money is STILL going into the hands of the rich and famous. There's no proof that digital downloads in it's own, is helping any of us Indie people out enough that it would make a difference. Even before Napster's & Limewire's mp3's were widely available for use. Downloads were all there since the Internet started. Nothing has changed because mp3 downloads etc, other than theres now a flood of illegal copying going on.

 

[89gtsleeper]

I have some very mixed feelings about this... I definitely support music, especially when it comes to those "Just Hitting the Scene" bands that really need the extra sales and support... Screw Metallica and their millions of dollars, it's the little guys that deserve for you to buy their record at retail price... on the other side though, most people are reluctant to buy cds from "local" bands, so it can be very difficult to promote and distribute your own music through cd sales at first.

On the other hand though, mp3s can make a huge impact for those little guys to get their music out there initially... if you offer it free, people will say what the hell and give it a listen... no biggie if it sucks and isn't worth a listen... however, if it is, you just got one person's attention, and they may go tell some other people about your music and share that same free download with them... this goes on and on, and eventually you can get a fan base appearing at your shows, and venues that pay you more and more money simply because YOUR BAND is why they make more money... When you look at it in this light, that free mp3 didn't neccessarily hurt you in the long run, because it caused ticket sales to go up... then you start to get the fans coming to every shows, and they will end up buying your t-shirts, cds, and whatever else you have...

As for the Big shots, I think it does effect their profit substantially in terms of cd sales alone, but in the long run, what does it matter, they have money already, they are successful... it's wrong that they are being stingy about having even more... that's where success turned into greed... I will stand by this statement... I may or may not get rich and famous some day with my music, but if I do, I will not let it turn to into a greedy self-righteous all about money lifestyle. Period.

 

[David Hooper]

There have been several studies on this. Numbers are 1 sale lost for every 8000 downloads.

Are pirates future customers? Take a look at this... http://www.indiemusician.com/2007/05/pirates_are_fut.html