DJL vs. Studio Projects

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capnreverb

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I love this site and slowly over the last month have been going through all the threads on the mic forum. It's some of the best reading I've had in a long time. I've really come to enjoy the fact hat almost every time someone brings up a SP point, DJL begins his bashing. This is almost always followed by a response from the folks at SP. I really like these dis contests, especially everyones comical responses to DJL's persistance. There should almost be a whole sub section dedicated to DJL's hate and PMI's rebuttel. Great stuff. At this point, I dont really care who is right, its just funny. Going back in time through all these threads, I can always be rewarded with a good verbal exchange between the two. We should get R. Crumb to illustrate a comic book version of these debates. Better yet, maybe I need to get a life.
 
theres nothing wrong in laughing at people that take a stand against something. even if they're proven right. well not to say DJL was ever right. everyone has their own opinion. if people felt they needed to get a life instead of laughing at someone...there'd be no comedy central.
 
capnreverb said:
I love this site and slowly over the last month have been going through all the threads on the mic forum. It's some of the best reading I've had in a long time. I've really come to enjoy the fact hat almost every time someone brings up a SP point, DJL begins his bashing. This is almost always followed by a response from the folks at SP. I really like these dis contests, especially everyones comical responses to DJL's persistance. There should almost be a whole sub section dedicated to DJL's hate and PMI's rebuttel. Great stuff. At this point, I dont really care who is right, its just funny. Going back in time through all these threads, I can always be rewarded with a good verbal exchange between the two. We should get R. Crumb to illustrate a comic book version of these debates. Better yet, maybe I need to get a life.

At one point DJL was a gentlemen and told that he gets off Alan's back. I felt very happy and almost emotional, then. Unfortunately, it turned out that DJL is not a man of his word, which BTW, is not that big of surprise. Anyway, I payed attention that lately Alan just ignores cheap pockings, which IMO is the best way to deal with situation.
 
Marik said:
At one point DJL was a gentlemen and told that he gets off Alan's back. I felt very happy and almost emotional, then. Unfortunately, it turned out that DJL is not a man of his word, which BTW, is not that big of surprise. Anyway, I payed attention that lately Alan just ignores cheap pockings, which IMO is the best way to deal with situation.
I hate spam and misleading info... from PMI or any other company.
 
DJL said:
I hate spam and misleading info... from PMI or any other company.
What about when the "misleading info" comes from you? You've certainly spewed your share of misinformation about PMI. Oh, that doesn’t count, does it?

The word “hypocrite” comes to mind… :rolleyes:
 
This has been one of the main reasons I do not post many clips, or offer too much information. HR has been very hostile for me and the threads end up a trash war. Marik is correct, I now ignore the hostile as it only causes more trouble.

Most people here are very nice, but now it has come to me not wanting to offer too much. I put up a clip on the thread that Vikki started titled Split over some microphones. It was about some choices which included C4's.

I put up a C4 clip as one person claimed they were bright, which when used properly, they are not. I was asked a good deal of questions on that clip. I really did not wish to answer them because I felt it would give the main hostile more opportunity to start a trash war. I guess some felt jaded, but as my responses are hunted down by this hostile, I chose not to reply.

Shame really, but that is the way it has to be...
 
Lets see, the last time I jumped on PMI was for posting misleading information for the reason to sell a product.

PMI posted the following...
alanhyatt said:
The 603's are very good mics. We did an in house shootout a couple of weeks ago with C4's, Schoeps, Cascade, and the new Joemeek JM27 The JM27 is the same mic as the 603, ADK SC1, and the Cascade mic.

The 603, or in this case the Joemeek JM27 we used was darker sounding, yet had a full rich and warm sound to it. It added a color to the mids that was quite nice for acoustic guitar, but only acceptable at best on overheads, where the C4 were very open and detailed on everything. The C4's were very close to the Schoeps, but we were very surprised how well the JM27 did, so that means the 603's will also do very well.

Now this is us at our facility, so don't go taking our word as some of you may feel we were biased in the test, but the end result is the 603/Joemeek JM27 are pretty darn good for the money.

FWIW....

PMI was trying to mislead newbies into believing that the Marshall MXL603S and JoeMeek JM27 were the same... not kind of the same, but the same mic.

The Marshall MXL603S and JoeMeek JM27 are not the same mic... and this kind of misleading info/spam is wrong and doesn't help anyone who comes here to learn about mics and must be rebuked and so that is what I did.

But if PMI wants to post helpful info... I don't have a problem with that.
 
I have experienced some of the same things Alan. It makes me almost not want to come here. However, thats not the right thing to do. I do find some useful information here, and really there are only a few people who seems to be confrontational. The bottom line I guess is that why should the actions of a few affect the group as a whole. Maybe I don't have 3000 posts, but I also spend 60+ hours a week between doing live and studio work as an engineer. We all have opinions, yet some people tend to think that because my opinion may differ from those of another, that it means that I am attacking them personally. Then there are those that find me to be an "elitist" because I don't use all of the cheap mics and outboard and actually have some decent gear. That I find amusing.

Then there is the whole argument that this is "home recording" and not "pro" or "commercial" recording. I find this one ammusing as well. If that was the case, then the whole board would consist of topics and replies from newbies to the audio industry only. I fail to see how that would be helpful for those "home recordists" looking to learn and progress in what they do and love. I for one am glad to see manufacturers and pro's on this and on every BBS. I don't care if you do or don't spam so long as you don't hide the fact that you are a dealer/manufacturer or whatever ever it is that we all do. Also, as long as some useful information and some sort of objectivity is applied. If every post was just about buying a specific product, I do agree that it would be tasteless, lacking in tact, and all around not helpful for the BBS's like this one are trying to accomplish.

I really do enjoy watching, listening, and contributing on forums such as this one. I would hate to have to leave, but at the same time, I should not always have to defend what are my opinions and experiences because someone else has internalized what I stated. My time is worth more than that.

For all newcomers, watch carefully what people post, and how they go about doing it. You will find very quickly who's opinions are worth listening to, and which people just like to support whatever the current "trends" are and/or just want to feel better about their own purchases by talking trash about other items.
 
Very good post, xstatic, and glad to have you here. That last line you wrote is the rule I've tried to go by lately.

I used to point that out to the newcomers on a post-by-post basis, but I just ended up sitting here typing all day and being aggravated about it (like right now :rolleyes: ). I finally had to let it go and just hope they figured it out for themselves.
 
xstatic said:
Then there is the whole argument that this is "home recording" and not "pro" or "commercial" recording. I find this one ammusing as well. If that was the case, then the whole board would consist of topics and replies from newbies to the audio industry only.

I am glad to hear from pros about their equipment and particularly about their recording methods. However, many of us here can't afford pro equipment and like to hear opinions about more affordable gear that we have a chance of buying. That is what I mean by home recording. That is why folks like Harvey Gerst have such a unique and enthusiastic reception here, and why with two or three exceptions we are more than glad to hear from Alan Hyatt and other manufacturers.
 
QUOTE..............."Lets see, the last time I jumped on PMI was for posting misleading information for the reason to sell a product"

Wrong DJ................how about this inane comment you made within the last 24 hours........"And IMO, the real reason for the color dot system was so PMI doesn't have to deal with the QC of the large variations between mic outputs"


As was pointed out in the source thread for that comment, it is another badly disguised snipe at SP as well as being inaccurate, but you already know that, don't you.

:rolleyes:
 
I'm gonna join in here. I've outgrown the "home" recording stage and built a commercial facility, but I still use a lot of my home gear, just needed more room.I cannot afford to go out and buy the best of the best, nor do I chose to. Unfortunately, most information about products is still, and will be for a long time, learned from magazines. At least 75% of that info is hype. Now that we all have internet access, we can get opinions from actual users of this gear, but either way, it's all objective. Opinions are just that.

The trick is to read between the lines and form your own opinion. I've had bad pieces of gear from respected companies and I've had great pieces of gear from "bashed" companies. I'm not comparing apples and oranges, I'm just saying there is good and bad involved in any aquisition you make.

Now, for me, I'd be perfectly content to buy any PMI product (and I have) because word of mouth - from users - and the fact that I can contact Alan himself (but I haven't), is a major plus when it comes to spending my hard earned money. I don't have much SP stuff, but what I have works great for what I need it to do. I also have a lot of Behringer and Alesis stuff, some of which is really good, some of which is crap. But when I bought it originally, it served its purpose. That's all I expect from gear. They're tools. When I can afford better tools, I'll get them. For right now, I'm not going to save for years to get something with the German name on it when I can get multiple other things to add many flavors to my gear. Naturally, if the time ever came that I could afford an SSL with Neumanns galore, a couple of Avalons, a rack of Neve pre's, etc., don't think I wouldn't get them. But I do a lot of research before I buy anything, no matter what it costs. If I buy a mic for $100 and it sucks, it was a $100 gamble...but for that price, I'll find a use for it someday. But if that same $100 bought me a mic that sounds good on a couple of sources, then it was well worth the purchase.

Alan can spam anytime as far as I'm concerned. I'd also welcome spammers from Behringer, Alesis, MXL, Octava, Rode or even the higher end companies, but I don't see them helping anybody out here. Where are they? Most companies are faceless and don't honestly give a crap whether you buy their product or not. They figure you will because they said it's the best thing "for the money" and it's cheap enough that you can afford it. That's all Alan's been saying too, except he's got the balloons to come here and say it. He's not telling us to buy his stuff, he's only saying what it is, probably the best product in that price range. Is it? That's up to the individual. If you believe him...fine. If you don't, that's fine too. But if you have an issue with his products, he's there to back them up and fix the problem. Where are all the other companies? I can't even get e-mail returned from Behringer...so that tells you where their support is at.

If spammers bother people, so what? If it's blatant advertising, then it bothers me too and that's plain ignorant (I also wouldn't buy their product). It's as bad as pop-ups. But if what you consider what Alan is doing as spamming, then bring it on! I'll take constructive spamming from ANY manufacturer.

If someone like DJL has a personal vendetta against Alan, I personally don't care. He's entitled to his opinion. I don't have to agree with it. He's not asking me to agree with it. He states what he feels...right or wrong. As for me, I'd be partial to listening to Alan before I listen to DJL, simply because DJL has such a reputation on this board, and also the fact that I don't know who he is or what he does. I know what Alan does. He doesn't hide. I'm not accusing DJL of hiding, only that I don't know what his credentials are or why I should listen to his opinion. And believe it or not, I've actually read a post or two where DJL was helpful and constructive! :-)

But not near as much as Alan's were.

Have I gotten off the track? ;-)
 
Well, I see DJL as a one man crusade to try and bring down Alan and PMI.
I'm glad Alan's here. I like his posts.
I have his T3 microphone, and ya know what: Its a great microphone! I love it! I use it a lot! I'd recommend it to anyone, and I can do that because I use it, and I know what it'll do.
I wont try to persuade or disuade anyone on Alan's other mics because, ya know what, I don't own them and I've never used them.

I don't see how you can recommend or, conversely, criticize a piece of gear if you don't own it or have never used it.

I wonder how many Studio Projects mics DJL has?
 
If you have the inclination to believe the void, it has used a couple.
 
Actually i think it brings more attention to Alans products, i know when djl was having a dig on one thread it turned me to go and have a look at Alans web site. DJl you could be helping Alan to sell more mics!
Vikki(uk)
 
reverse psychology can be effective. DJL talks bad about it, alan defends the company and some of us who are on the fence end up saying "well how bad can the product really be? so we buy/borrow/test the product and end up liking it. I also dont have any SP equipment and the main reason i didnt buy the SP B1 when i bought my first condensor mic was because it wasnt on the website i use to buy my gear from. It there now though so its on my list of things to get.
 
Michael Jones said:
I wonder how many Studio Projects mics DJL has?
Mike,DJL only uses the really high end German mics.All you have to do is go
to the clinic or click his WWW to know that!If shit were brains,he would be
the information desk.
DJL, post some tunes or shut the fuck up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
It's threads like this that make me want to stop reading this site despite the wealth of knowledge it contains, but apparently some people would rather try to stir shit up then learn something useful. We all know that DJL and the guys from PMI have their differences. Why beat that horse over and over again? Anyone who's read this board for more than a month probably knows that he used to have a whole host of SP mics and that he sold most of them, for whatever reasons. I've seen him recommend a particular SP mic to a person, on occasion. And for people who argue that they "don't want newbies to be led the wrong way", think about it...for every post that DJL makes putting down an SP mic, there are 10 people here extolling its virtues. So, to reiterate, why keep stirring the counter-productive shitpot any longer?
 
Adam P said:
It's threads like this that make me want to stop reading this site despite the wealth of knowledge it contains, but apparently some people would rather try to stir shit up then learn something useful. We all know that DJL and the guys from PMI have their differences. Why beat that horse over and over again? Anyone who's read this board for more than a month probably knows that he used to have a whole host of SP mics and that he sold most of them, for whatever reasons. I've seen him recommend a particular SP mic to a person, on occasion. And for people who argue that they "don't want newbies to be led the wrong way", think about it...for every post that DJL makes putting down an SP mic, there are 10 people here extolling its virtues. So, to reiterate, why keep stirring the counter-productive shitpot any longer?
Open forums which allow people to express opinions are far from counter-productive.
DJL is a shit neck nobody,that enjoys pissing off the people that actually
know what the fuck they are talking about.The next time that you get
annoyed at the stirrers of the shit pot,remember that DJL wrote the recipe.
 
I'm not defending or condoning anything DJL has said or done...I'll keep my opinions on that matter to myself. However, it is 100% counter-productive to unnecesarily discuss something like this in a forum thats dedicated to microphones and their uses/applications/etc. Take it to the Dragon Cave or something.
 
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