Distant guitars

[Necromaniac]

Im trying to go for a very in your face dry guitar sound. The style of music I'm playing is death metal so Im looking for that big up front sound.
Im using a shure sm 57 for the mic and im recording into a digi 002 rack system. Ive messed around with moving the mic all over and everytime the guitar sounds too distant. Should I set up some sound isolation walls to help eliminate any room ambiance? Or is there a trick using some compression to get the signal more attack? What is a good volume for a really disorted guitar? And does anyone have any advice?

 

[Massive Master]

Try going with a little LESS distortion... If you listen VERY closely to a lot of death metal, you'll notice that the guitars are very CRUNCHY and not very FUZZY.

It's hard to get "in your face" with fuzz...

So, try baking off on the gain a bit, crank it up to a respectable level and throw a 57 just a couple inches from the grille.

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com

 

[btr31]

what kinda amp you got?

 

[grinder]

Try going with a little LESS distortion... If you listen VERY closely to a lot of death metal, you'll notice that the guitars are very CRUNCHY and not very FUZZY.

It's hard to get "in your face" with fuzz...

So, try baking off on the gain a bit, crank it up to a respectable level and throw a 57 just a couple inches from the grille.

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com

Yup, also use some high pass to keep the lowend from getting muddy. Boost a little around 1-3khz if it's still not cutting through and go light on the reverb.

 

[Necromaniac]

what kinda amp you got?

Probally would help if I did list what the heck im playing with.


My guitar is a Jackson Kv2 tuned down to B
Amp head is a Marshall mode 4
Cabinet is a old randall 4x12
As far as pedals the only thing I'm using Is a boss metal zone.

When I record guitar D.I It sounds like shit but it has that right in your face feels to it. Probally because im going straight from the guitar head to the digi rack and there is no outside noise.

 

[Rocket Boy]

holy shit, tuned to b!? ive never even heard of anyone doing that.

 

[In Tune Audio]

When I record guitar D.I It sounds like shit but it has that right in your face feels to it. Probally because im going straight from the guitar head to the digi rack and there is no outside noise. [/B]

Why don't you record Di and Amped at the sametime. The combination of the two might help you get a bit close to the sound your after

 

[Necromaniac]

holy shit, tuned to b!? ive never even heard of anyone doing that.

Listen to any death metal band. They all tune down to B.

Why don't you record Di and Amped at the sametime. The combination of the two might help you get a bit close to the sound your after

I have tried that. The D.I sound just completely takes over my mic sound. Even when I put it way down in the mix I still sounds like hell.

 

[grinder]

Listen to any death metal band. They all tune down to B.

Aren't they using 7 strings with a low B?

I have tried that. The D.I sound just completely takes over my mic sound. Even when I put it way down in the mix I still sounds like hell. [/B]

You may need to realign the tracks. Slight differances in the time it takes for both the signals to reach the "tape", can make the tracks slightly out of sync and cause comb filtering.

 

[mojew]

ditch the metal zone. the distortion from your marshall head will sound much much much better.

 

[btr31]

i agree mojew. fuck the metal zone. they suck! they are for begginners and definately not recording!. The marshall should be good. how is the distortion on that head? i've never heard one or heard of it? also, what kind of speakers are in the randall? i am a big mesa cab fan. it would be a good investment because they are diffinately top of the line!

 

[mojew]

I've seen a few of them at shows recently. They've actually got a lot of guts for a solid state amp.

If you're set on using a distortion pedal (which you really don't need), i'd reccomend either the danelectro daddy-o or the danelectro fabtone. both low cost, but good performance pedals. I swear by the daddy-o in front of my bandmaster head.

 

[Necromaniac]

The marshall head I have is a tube head not solid state as someone stated. I guess not many of you listen to death metal because the metal zone pedal has been THE pedal to use for recording for years and is not a pedal for beginners like someone said. The raw distortion on the head is not even close to heavy enough. Im just having a hell of a time getting the guitars to sound really good. Im sure it will come with time and practice.

 

[Strryder]

Im sure it will come with time and practice.

That's the ticket, but you should not be too closed minded to try some different solutions to your problem, big guitar sounds on tape (or whatever), can come from some pretty small packages, you might be surprised at just how "huge and about to explode" a little 22 watt Deluxe Reverb can sound with the right pedals in front of it and the output tubes/tube rectifier all being pushed to their limits, a little distance with the mic can also add considerable "size" to the sound.

The Mode Four is a solid state power amp with a dual tube preamp, 2 x ECC83, this does not make it a tube amp, it's still a hybrid like the valvestate line.

Have you tried using some compression after recording to control the peaks and allow you to bring the guitar up more in the mix?

One more thing, the guitar is more or less a midrange instrument, and can be very hard to deal with when all of the mids are scooped out, if you take away too much mid, extend and boost the lows, and boost the highs, all you'll have to work with is the mud and the fizz, mids are the clarity.

 

[GhettoWayz]

i have a jackson tuned down to B too.
I grabbed a pack of 7 strings, and put em on my 6 string thickest up, and just left the high e off. that way the axe can handle the low slack.

a lot fo death metal suffers from the same crummy guitar sounds. too much reverb, distortion pedals and mud.

like someone else said, get rid of the metal zone pedal. it is a great pedal with a 4 band eq, and when you're recording thats the problem. lose that thing.

your tuned really low, cut some bass from your amp. when you're guitar is tuned down to low B, you're no longer a 'mid-range' instrument. you're fighting with kick drums and bass guitars.

track the parts dry, get a dry but gritty tone from your amp less gain and less bass, no metal zone pedal, experiment with mic placement and youll find a suitable death metal tone.

i think youre having trouble because the guitar is tuned really low.
is it muddying the sound with the kicks?

if youre cutting the guitar below 80hz on a low tuned B string, you may lose the punch.

who knows??

 

[Necromaniac]

Im getting a little better sound now. I had the pre amp turned up to high on my digi rack and the mic was too sensative and was picking up too much room ambiance. I turned the bass down a little bit and put the mic about half an inch from the speaker grill and turned the distortion on the pedal down a 1/4 and it sounded better. Its just going to take some fine tuning.

 

[NYMorningstar]

i have a jackson tuned down to B too.
I grabbed a pack of 7 strings, and put em on my 6 string thickest up, and just left the high e off. that way the axe can handle the low slack.

Stating that as a guitar tuned down to B is misleading. Your guitar is still tuned to the standard A440 except that your ditching your High E string and adding a Bass string.

 

[GhettoWayz]

ya, your right....
basically my regular E string is now in the A string slot.....

it was a fun playing that way for a while, but im happy to be back at regular a440 shredding some good thrash metal riffs.

im currently writing a thrash metal album.
and its all going to be a440

crankin out some Rust In peace by Megadeth right now for inspiration.

 

[Outlaws]

I would try tracking the parts clean and then overdubbing with some distortion to taste. ...or visa versa

 

[mojew]

" I guess not many of you listen to death metal because the metal zone pedal has been THE pedal to use for recording for years and is not a pedal for beginners like someone said."

For some reason I really don't believe that. I own a metal zone, and I'd never use it for anything. ever.

But if its true, and it is the greatest metal pedal ever... I'd still ditch it. You can make your band's shtick the fact that you actually have good sounding guitars!