Disappearing Reverb

  • Thread starter Thread starter dachay2tnr
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dachay2tnr

dachay2tnr

One Hit Wonder
I have a bit of a perplexing problem. Here’s my set-up:

I have a microphone going into Channel 1 of a Mackie compact mixer. I take a direct out signal from Channel 1 and feed it to an RNC compressor, which in turn feeds Channel 1 of a Delta sound card. This is the signal that is recorded.

I also take a return from Channel 1 of the Delta card, and send it back to my mixer going into Channel 7.

Lastly, I have an external reverb unit patched into the Mackie as an insert. By unassigning Channel 1 from the main mix, and applying reverb to just Channel 7, I can have an artist hear reverb in his headphones, without printing the reverb to my recording.

My problem, however, is that the reverb is cutting in and out on me. The problem seems to have arisen only after I incorporated the RNC in my configuration. I’ve had the reverb unit checked out, and the technician can find nothing wrong.

Any ideas on what might be going on.

P.S. I haven’t yet tried removing the RNC from the signal path to see if that clears up the problem. But I can’t think of why the RNC might be knocking out the reverb.
 
I would make sure it's not a bad cable or a short in one of the effects jacks. Have you verified that the signal coming out of the delta to CH7 is not cutting out? That is the first place to look.

Do you have a noise gate plugin on the track being sent to CH7?

An easier way of using the reverb would be to put it on an aux send. Then just assign from the aux send on ch1 how much you want to send to the reverb. Since you are only recording the direct signal from the insert the reverb will not be recorded. This will also eliminate any latency in the monitoring path.
 
Well. . . first of all. . .

INSERT the RNC into Channel 1. If you don't, you are unbalancing your signal right before you go into the Delta (RNC's output is unbalanced). This means you are having to crank your pre's more and getting more noise.

Secondly. . .

Take your AUX 1 or 2 output and feed it into the reverb then return that to Channel 6 on the Line Input. Now you should have reverb without the latency of going into the Delta.

Hope that helps. BTW, if your mixer had busses it would make your world much easier!!

Looks like he beat me to it. (edited)

Beez
 
You don't have the RNC configured to duck the reverb signal do you? It could be the reverb is not cutting out but being ducked by the RNC. Just a thought.
 
Thanks for the responses, gentlemen. Here's some answers to your questions:

I would make sure it's not a bad cable or a short in one of the effects jacks. Have you verified that the signal coming out of the delta to CH7 is not cutting out? That is the first place to look.
Click to expand...
It could be a cable. I don't have a lot of spare cables, but I'll look into this. I did change out the cable from the Aux send, but I haven't tried the return cables.

However, there is definitely a signal coming from the Delta. We can hear the voice, it's just that sometimes it has reverb on it and sometimes it doesn't.
Do you have a noise gate plugin on the track being sent to CH7?
Click to expand...
No.
An easier way of using the reverb would be to put it on an aux send. Then just assign from the aux send on ch1 how much you want to send to the reverb. Since you are only recording the direct signal from the insert the reverb will not be recorded. This will also eliminate any latency in the monitoring path.
Click to expand...
Sorry. My bad. It is connected via an Aux Send.

INSERT the RNC into Channel 1. If you don't, you are unbalancing your signal right before you go into the Delta (RNC's output is unbalanced). This means you are having to crank your pre's more and getting more noise.
Click to expand...
Not sure I follow this. :confused: I have a Mackie 1642VLZ. It has Direct Outs, no Channel Inserts. The signal goes from the Channel 1 Direct Out to the RNC to the Sound Card.

You don't have the RNC configured to duck the reverb signal do you? It could be the reverb is not cutting out but being ducked by the RNC. Just a thought.
Click to expand...
This actually sounds a bit like what is happening - except the cutting in and out is not rapid. It will be off for say half a song, and then kick in for the remaining half. Almost like the reverb goes to sleep, and then gets awakened by something.

I wouldn't have a clue as to how to configure the RNC to duck reverb. How would I do that? Remember now, the RNC is directly in the signal path for Channel 1 (as I believe it needs to be for a compressor), while the reverb is on a Aux send.
 
If anything is plugged into the Sidechain jack for routing then you could be ducking your signal. If not then it may be the Mackie internal routing, or a bad cord. Try a different channel.

Does the Mackie have its own internal compression? That could be an issue too.

Could also be the reverb "in" jack or, if there is a compression setting too high, some knob builit into the reverb.
 
I would just insert the comp on ch 1 and then send the DO to the recorder like Beezo mentioned. You would only need to use one TRS cable between the insert and RNC.

If it's truly intermittent than there is a short in a cable or jack somewhere. Also make sure your reverb unit doesn't have a noise gate built in. Many guitar fx units have one to cut out amp hum.
 
Well, I had to go home and look at the equipment before this all sunk into my thick skull. But it made perfect sense once I looked at everything.

I was able to install the compressor as an Insert using just a single TRS cable. (Thanks Beez and Tex.)

At the moment I am getting reverb. Too soon to tell if that actually fixed the problem (not sure why it would have), but if not I'll investigate the cables and/or switch to another Aux Send.

Thanks for the help, guys. I had assumed (there's that word!) that the compressor needed to be installed directly in the signal path. However, in looking at the Mackie manual it suggests installing it as an insert, just as you described.
 
Beezoboy said:
Well. . . first of all. . .

INSERT the RNC into Channel 1. If you don't, you are unbalancing your signal right before you go into the Delta (RNC's output is unbalanced). This means you are having to crank your pre's more and getting more noise.
Click to expand...

Beezo... what up with this homeboy? Let us not confuse "balanced" with "level".

The output of an RNC is indeed 'unbalanced', however, it is at a "+4" level [as in a professional level, as in you won't have to crank a gotdamn thing, and you're not going to get any more noise than if you used it on an insert... the caveat being if you're in a heavy RF area, and/or are using cables of excessive length... in those cases, you might have an 'unbalanced' issue]
 
If the problem is real intermittent, you could set up something continuous like a cd player into ch1, evertyhing else the same, and use some of your monitoring features to catch what's going on.
Most verbs have input leds, set the verb-return mixer ch to solo, ect, let it play in the background untill it pops up, then trace it back.
And shake out all the patch points and cables. (but that could also make the problem hide and sneak back when you're not looking. They love to do that don't they!)
Wayne
 
The output of an RNC is indeed 'unbalanced', however, it is at a "+4" level [as in a professional level, as in you won't have to crank a gotdamn thing, and you're not going to get any more noise than if you used it on an insert... the caveat being if you're in a heavy RF area, and/or are using cables of excessive length... in those cases, you might have an 'unbalanced' issue
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. :)

I was really not under the impression that it (the RNC) did lower the signal, as much as I was trying to tell him that unbalancing his signal right before he "hit tape or A/D conversion" was a bad idea. Some unbalanced gear however would drop his signal before hitting tape, so I figured it was an easier explanation than trying to explain balanced vs unbalanced and +4db vs -10db.

Just trying to use the trick parents do when they try to tell kids not to do something. Like masturbating leading to blindness and such.

Beez
 
UPDATE:

I had a few hour session last night. The reverb didn't cut out once.

All I did was move the compressor from inbetween the mixer (Channel 1 Direct Out) and the sound card, and install it as an insert in Channel 1 instead.

I'm still scratching my head, but it appears to have fixed the problem.
 
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