Direct recording with effects pedals

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Bibicul

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Hey guys, this is my first post, hopefully under the right category.

My question regards recording techniques for electric guitar using effects pedals. I'm going to summarize the entire story below, in order to make this as clear as possible. Please send me your feedback, it would be greatly appreciated.

I've recently purchased two BOSS pedals, a DS-1 Distortion and DD-6 Delay. My idea was to plug my electric guitar (I have a Fender Strat American with EMG pick-ups) into the DS-1; the DS-1 into the DD-6; and the DD-6 directly into my Firewire Solo audio interface. Technically this works and I can record just fine, however the guitar sound that I get in really strange (fuzzy, lacking depth). Now, when I pluged in the BOSS pedals into my amp, everything sounded just fine, which led me to believe that these pedals were not meant to be recorded directly through an audio interface, or that I just don't know how to set them up for direct recording.

In any case, I then tried to mic my amp (it's not that great of an amp, just a Crate GFX-30) using my Shure 57 and AT3035, however since the amp wasn't that good to begin with (and I couldn't crank it because of neighbors), I didn't like the sound.

In the end, I eneded up using my old Digitech GNX2, plugging it directly into my audio intefrface, however it doesn't have the feel and power that I was looking for... it's simply "too digital" for me.

At the end of the day, I felt that the BOSS pedals, if properly used, would still be the best choice for recording. However, I'm having trouble figuring out HOW to record straight through my audio interface, without going through my amp.

Any suggestions? Is there anything that I'm doing wrong? To be more specific, the audio clips on BOSS's website - are these recorded directly through an audio interface or by micing an amp? How do I get that sound?
 
I'm at work so I can't post anything. Tips would be welcome though. A detailed answer would be appreciated, but mainly I'd like to know if plugging BOSS pedals directly through an audio interface (i.e. no amp involved) is a "correct" or widely-used technique.
 
A guitar cab will give a lot of the instrument its tone and colour. The highly electronic distorted signals coming straight out of an effects pedal get smoothed and distorted further by the cone on the amp, giving it a more realistic tone. This coupled with correct mic placement will give a nice rich sound.

This is hard to get 'virtually' depending how pedantic you are. I use virtual amp simulators (Native instruments Guitar Rig software, or amplitude). These model guitar amps and provide similar results to a real amp.

A lot of people will mix a DI signal from a guitar and a mic'd amplifier to get the full sound they need.

Does your DAW software have any amp modeling software? For example newer versions of cubase (4 and 5) come with free modeling inserts. Admittedly these are totally crap, but its better then nothing.

DI'ing will sound gritty and digital, but if you track a mixture of DI'd guitar Mic'd guitar, pan it and treat it nicely you should be able to get an Ok sound, if not 'perfect'.
 
The first thing I would try is plugging your guitar straight into your audio interface without any pedals at all. The purpose of doing this is to make sure that your signal path is working okay,and that you can record successfully a clean guitar tone (even though you may not like the tone of it).

If this doesn't work, it means that plugging straight into the interface (with or without pedals) is not a good idea, and you will need to think of other methods. For example, consider getting a DI box.

If this does work, you can try the pedals again. Keep a close eye on levels and keep the thought 'minimalist' in mind. The settings you use may sound great through an amp in your bedroom (or on stage), but may be too much for a recording.

You are aware of the role that an amp and its speaker has in modifying your guitar sound. But be also aware that the room in which you play has a great influence. When you go direct you lose these modifiers, and that could be why you are dissatisfied with the sound. Somewhere in the tracking or mixing process you will need to add these back in if you want to recreate that particular sound.

Sometimes it is simply a matter of adding a bit of reverb to overcome the dryness of the direct signal. Sometimes you may need more, and this is where amp simulators and the like have their place.
 
I think the OP may be suffering from what I call "bedroom tone."

Bedroom tone comes from a player without much studio experience, who develops his or her tone by playing solo a lot (in the bedroom). They tend to develop a sound that covers the entire frequency spectrum. Once you start layering parts, each of which has its own bedroom tone, you get this giant clot of sounds, each competing for dominance.

I would advise the OP to choose tones that will work well in the overall mix. That may mean ditching the pedals and focusing on a more pure amped sound. Then, he may need to further EQ the guitar tracks, not to sound awesome on their own, but to sit in the track better.
 
Actually the problems I've encountered have to do with recording rhythm guitars. The problems were more visibile after recording 2 guitars and panning them left and right.

The result was that on my monitors the distorted sound produced by the DS-1 sounded very "fuzzy", even when using a very slight amount of gain. Therefore when listening to my mix on the monitors it sounded as though the speakers were blown up [I assure you they're not :) ].

I've used more agressive settings on the DS-1 and pluged it into my amp, in which case the fuzziness was gone. That's why I assumed that the DS-1 was not designed to be plugged directly into an audio interface, but rather into an amp (and mic'ed)

If you go to this link:
http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=127&ParentId=90

you will notice that there are short audio clips presenting the DS-1. I was trying to figure out if these were recorded through an amp or by plugging the pedal into an audio interface. For some reason, I cannot get anywhere NEAR that sound and I really can't figure out why. The sound on their website is fat, crisp and powerful - that's what I was trying to get.
 
I can guarantee that was recorded through an amp/speaker combo. No way they got that sound from dirctly plugging the pedals into an interface.

Another thing you need to think of is the fact that the pedal outputs are instrument level while most interfaces expect line-level signal. So unless your interface has instrument/line switch, you'll need to use a DI box or a preamp to get the levels to an acceptable level.

However, that sound on the Boss site is definitely the sound of a mic'd amp.
 
noisewreck said:
Another thing you need to think of is the fact that the pedal outputs are instrument level while most interfaces expect line-level signal. So unless your interface has instrument/line switch, you'll need to use a DI box or a preamp to get the levels to an acceptable level.
Click to expand...

I was wondering about that but I was too afraid of my own newbness to say it. So here's a piggy back question . . . why is it, then, that I was told I probably don't need a DI box between my Digitech RP500 to record direct into a mixer? I haven't done it yet, but that's what I was told. I'm a bit lost.
 
nate_dennis said:
I was wondering about that but I was too afraid of my own newbness to say it. So here's a piggy back question . . . why is it, then, that I was told I probably don't need a DI box between my Digitech RP500 to record direct into a mixer? I haven't done it yet, but that's what I was told. I'm a bit lost.
Click to expand...

You use a DI to convert an instrument output into a mic level to plug into a mic preamp. You use a mic preamp to amp a mic signal up to line level.

If your RP500 has line level outputs you don't need a DI.
 
To the OP, coincidentally, I have the exact same pedals as you (plus a few others) and I tried the exact same thing you describe. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't expecting it to work but I thought I should try it.

I have a nice Fender combo amp and a small collection of mics but at the time all of it was at my jam space so I settled for direct in. I tried double-tracking, quadruple tracking, EQ, compression, reverb, amp simulator plug-ins... to no avail. Every trick I tried just seemed to make it sound worse. Talk about complete garbage--it made me want to vomit, frankly.

So my advice, for what it's worth, forget it. It's a waste of time. Save up for an amp with tone you like, and capture that sound with a good mic.
 
I had a Fender Deluxe 112 that had a wonky pre-amp. I could play just fine thru it if I used my Digitech RP-7 as a pre-amp. Worked for clean and distorted tones. Just for fun, tried it with a Boss DS-1. ONly distorted sounds, nothing of any use whatsoever when I tried to play clean. Same with a MetalMaster. Stompbox EQ worked, tho- but of course, only clean. Obviously, stomp pedals are not really meant to be pre-amps.

If you want to record direct (without using an amp), get a multi-effect unit and you will be in high cotton.
 
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