Digital cliping?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chris Jahn
  • Start date Start date
C

Chris Jahn

New member
How much does it really matter if two or three times throughout a song the snare (for instance, i could be anything) clips.

Im talking about a clip that is basically inaudible because of the nature of the song but the meters are defenetly spikeing.

If you cant hear it, does it matter?
 
Are you sure it's not audible? Maybe YOU can't hear it on your set up, but why take the chance that somoene listening on a system different (better) than yours might hear it?

If NOBODY can hear it, I guess you can say it doesn't matter. But make sure nobody can hear it.
 
If you really can't hear it then no it doesn't really matter. When you can hear it it's usually no good.
 
yeah i mean, basically i have a good mix going , but over all its kinda HOT. so in a couple spots one guitar clips and the snare clips in a couple others, but its all VERY rocking high gain so i dont think anyone would hear it, it does NOT clip on the master out, so the whole mix isnt cliping just the two instruments in a few spots.
 
If anything even approaches full-scale, you're probably mixing considerably too hot.
 
It probably won't do that much harm, Chris, but think of it this way:

The judgement bar for clipping on individual tracks should not be "is it not doing any harm?", but rather "is it doing any good?". If it doesn't sound any better with the clipping, if it's not doing any good, then there's no reason to do it. Best off not to clip unless it's for intentional sonic purposes.

G.
 
Just bring down those clipping tracks by whatever amount it takes to get them to not clip anymore. Then bring down the rest of the tracks by the same amount. Then turn up your monitors by that amount.

Chances are, your monitors are set to a fairly low volume, forcing you to jack the mix up to get the feeling you want.
 
You should replace the clipping snare hits with non clipping snare hits.

Eck
 
If you can't hear it (assuming that you trust your monitoring) I wouldn't worry about it. Especially if you like the performance and tone. Don't be afraid of a little red (some mastering engineers aren't afraid of even alot of red)

I'd double-check it in both speakers and headphones to make sure though.
 
masteringhouse said:
I think that you answered your own question.
Click to expand...
Really depends how much you truet your own ears.

Eck
 
That last post wasnt aimed at you MasteringHouse. :)

trust*


Eck
 
If its clipping at the channel level, there may be no audible negative change. If its clipping at the master or a summed buss, I would always get that taken care of. I would however consider taking every channel in your mix and reducing it by 3 to 6 db or so. Leave yourself some headroom:) Also, if you do turn the channels down it should not affect the way your mix sounds except for prefade sends, and compressors on busses and master outs. You may want to look at the thresholds on summed signals going through compressors if you turn down all of your channels.
 
ecktronic said:
That last post wasnt aimed at you MasteringHouse. :)

trust*


Eck
Click to expand...

I know eck (no prob).

The point that I'm trying to make is that many people seem to sweat over details that only matter to the meters or are buried/masked so deeply that they are inaudible. We should be concentrating on getting the best sounding mix, not that one that keeps the meters happiest or looks the best.

If you're a reasonably experienced engineer with a good set of ears, and you can't "hear it" without looking at the meters, concentrate on more important issues. I personally would rather have a great sounding mix with a few clips here and there, than one that sounds like trash but has -6 db of headroom over peak.

If the clips really bug you, try using the soft limit feature of your A/D converter if it has one, or a little limiting.
 
MrLip said:
Don't be afraid of a little red (some mastering engineers aren't afraid of even alot of red)
Click to expand...
Are we talking about digital red or analog red? I wouldn't let a mastering engineer near my mixes if they pushed things into digital red. I already tend to use a lot of "unpleasant" sounds, I don't need an ME to add to the irritation factor :D
 
noisewreck said:
Are we talking about digital red or analog red? I wouldn't let a mastering engineer near my mixes if they pushed things into digital red. I already tend to use a lot of "unpleasant" sounds, I don't need an ME to add to the irritation factor :D
Click to expand...

You probably want to stay away from the major mastering studios then. Given the current state of the loudness wars, it's a pretty common practice.
 
masteringhouse said:
You probably want to stay away from the major mastering studios then. Given the current state of the loudness wars, it's a pretty common practice.
Click to expand...
Luckily noise/powernoise/power-electronics is not a "pop" genre and doesn't get aired much, plus there are no big production houses that push this kind of stuff since it doesn't have much of a commercial value anyway, so most of the time it's a self-produced/self-mastered affair :D
 
masteringhouse said:
You probably want to stay away from the major mastering studios then. Given the current state of the loudness wars, it's a pretty common practice.
Click to expand...
Amen. Another one of those "compare to the pros" ambiguities.

A couple of weeks ago I grabbed a copy off of iTunes of Willie Nelson covering "Sitting On Top Of The World", the old Walter Vinson blues standard from back in the '30s. This was a modern 1990 recording, but the arrangement was very laid back, as most of Willie's stuff is. I had previously only heard it on the radio earlier that day.

I was horrified when I gave it a good look and listen on my home system; it was clipping all over the place. It doesn't have a completly horrible sound, not like it's crackling or anything like that. But it definitely sounds pushed like if it's purposely been boosted just to get volume out of it, kind of an artifical "feel" to it. The average listener's ear may not pick up on it, but from an engineer's ear's perspective, it was rather obvious, I thought; something that if I were personally driving, I'd definitely have backed off the gain into the converters a couple of dB.

One of those cases where the sonic quality would have been a bit more pleasant sounding if it were a couple of dB quieter, where the big boys made the decision that it's OK to sacrifice a few percent of quality for a couple of percent of loudness. IMHO, once you've gone into "sacrifice" territory, you've gone too far.

G.
 
Personally I feel MEs are stuck in the middle of all of this. With the exception of extremely rare cases, very few have told me to make a final master lower in volume. Probably one in the last twelve months. OTOH I can't count the number of clients that have asked if their CD can be louder. Even genres of music like Jazz and Ambient, where dynamics are very important to the music.

I don't blame the majors for using clipping, it's just another tool in the arsenal of making a loud CD. It's their job to to give their clients what they want, not to be a police force.

It's up to the people who purchase albums to complain about quality. Given that many are happy to listen to music encoded as mp3s through a set of earbuds, I doubt that much is going to change.
 
masteringhouse said:
It's up to the people who purchase albums to complain about quality. Given that many are happy to listen to music encoded as mp3s through a set of earbuds, I doubt that much is going to change.
Click to expand...
An excellent post all the way through, Tom. And the above excerpt is probably as true as it is sad.

I'm pinning my hopes on the inevitable pendulum of time; where such things as this seem to follow cycles of fashon...or more accurately, cycles of marketing. There ARE a few poors slob geniuses out there that realize that once everything is squashed and pushed and everything sounds pretty much the same in that regard, and who realize that songs are falling off of playlists too fast because the listeners get fatigued on the squashed sound quicker.

These folks will start to bring dynamics back in vogue as being avant-garde (read by the young-uns as being rebellious), the difference that makes their stuff stand out from the clones, and a tool to extend the shelf life of CD and iTune sales because the listeners won't tire on it as quickly.

I picture a possible time when college dorms crank their music not so much to bang their heads as to listen intently for the k3wl secret verse that The Next Big Artist has hidden underneth the RMS in order to draw her listeners into buying the music and listening to it WITH INTENT instead of just background noise.

I just hope that happens in my lifetime :D.

G.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top