Difference between good/bad preamps

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we are talking really fine points here, in many ways. You can indeed do a lot of good work with the Mackie mixers, I used to own a small pile of them myself. I'm just saying that using better gear *does* make a difference.

There are a lot of factors that go into choosing and buying gear. I started out with some real cheapo gear and have been gradually refining my ears and studio over the years. Don't get too stressed out about your mackie mixer, your ears will tell you when it's time to move on.
 
well currently i am using just about the cheapest preamp on the market... cost me $60 AND its behringer! :eek:
i think ill just get an eletro-harmonix 12ay7 and just stick with it for a while till i can get an avalon 737... :rolleyes:
 
First, I have to say that I DO think that the difference in sound between cheapie preamps and "good" preamps is INDEED "startling." Anyone who can't hear significant differences in significantly different units from simple A/B'ing, is in serious need of new monitors. Even with something as NON-dynamic as metal guitar - Just the last time I was over at Farview, Jason set up (1) A stock Soundcraft Ghost preamp (2) a modified Ghost pre (3) the Amek 9098 and (4) a Langevin DVC. Each preamp was SO different - Not subtle AT ALL.

This wasn't one of those things like changing the master clock and listening for tiny subtleties - This was something that when learned, one could easily walk out of the room while someone else changed the chain and you could walk back in and go "That's #3." It might as well have been a different microphone.

That being said - I've always found "higher quality" preamps to have more "focus" on the sound - It was really intangible and hard to explain - Until I stumbled upon THIS ARTICLE over at StudioReviews which explained it better than I ever could.

"Sound" aside, that clarity and focus can make more of a diference in the mix than the actual color or personality of the preamp itself.

BTW - I do have a Behringer preamp that I'm "forced" to use occasionally at a performing arts center that I work with. Compared to almost any other preamp I own, it sounds like garbage. The actual sound quality isn't the end of the world, but it's definitely NOT "focused" like a Grace or the freakishly focused preamps in Apogee's MiniMe.
 
SonicAlbert said:
In all honesty, I thought that recording you linked to earlier *would* have been better if it had been recorded through a rack of Neve's.

Thats exactly right Albert.
Exactly.
 
Ford Van said:
The reason I am so adamant about most guys around here worrying about preamps is because most here should really be concentrating on learning how to compensate in the MAJOR ways sound can be altered.

Im with you on that.
Thats 100% correct man.
But i just want to hear you say that AFTER youve honed those skills>>A great Pre will take THOSE skills that much further.

Its as if youre alluding to saying that nice pre's are important just so the nubile reader will take your point and run with it.

So ok nubile reader here ya go!

"Learn to RECORD properly. Then buy nice pre's"

There problem solved bub. ;)
 
I'm just wondering if there's anyone else here who could have made those live recordings with no soundchecking/mic placement time, through Mackie CR1604 pres and onto 44.1khz 16-bit ADAT. I'm not trying to start an argument when I say I'm not sure anyone else in this thread could have turned it out like that.

It just makes crap reading for those of us who really REALLY want to spend the day choosing new gear rather than learning new recording and mixing techniques. :)
 
xfinsterx said:
Im with you on that.
Thats 100% correct man.
But i just want to hear you say that AFTER youve honed those skills>>A great Pre will take THOSE skills that much further.

Its as if youre alluding to saying that nice pre's are important just so the nubile reader will take your point and run with it.

So ok nubile reader here ya go!

"Learn to RECORD properly. Then buy nice pre's"

There problem solved bub. ;)

You got most of it.

But really, as you get better, you stop worrying so much about the gear you have.

I will make the best with whatever I have, and turn out a good product with it.

There is this whole thing going on around here that suggests everybody is looking for world class sound! I think the average Joe mostly understands that you PAY for that kind of sound, and that it isn't JUST the gear that get's you there.

I have proven time and time again that you can achieve QUITE professional sounding results with low end gear IF you know what you are doing with it. Many listen to the work I have done with crappy gear and been impressed with it simply on the basis of it sounding good, not caring what I used to get there. It is further inspiration to them to know that I achieved it with the same kind of gear they own!

I think THAT is the spirit of homerecording.com, an average joe on a budget learning how to make the best with what they got.

What I find mostly here is a few things:

1 - Snobs with great gear who aren't turning out all that great of a product, have very little useful knowledge to share, and use the cop out that you gotta have all this expensive gear to do anything worthwhile to listen to.

2 - Guys who are too lazy and/or feel too threatened to share REAL useful info about how to use gear to it's fullest. Guys who worry that sharing little things like how you can decrease distortion via a compressor simply by using a longer release time, etc...

3 - Mocking birds. You know, guys that don't know shit, but like to feel important by sharing what they have read some other cat said. ;)

Anyway. AGAIN, it would be nice to see more questions/answers about HOW to just use gear. More thoughtful responses from guys about little things you can do to improve your productions. Hell, there are still people, recording in 24 bits, who think they gotta record as hot as possible! There are people that still think you gotta eq everything in a mix, and don't even know that you can use "masking" as a form of eq too! I can't count how many guys don't know that you can improve your reverb simply by using more pre-delay! LOL

Nope, I see a lot of "You gotta have this expensive peice of gear to get great results". :( Lazy bastards!
 
Ford Van said:
I think THAT is the spirit of homerecording.com, an average joe on a budget learning how to make the best with what they got.

That says it all. Couldnt agree more.

EDIT: Even after all this discussion about still being able to make great music with cheap preamps, some coward gave me a negative rep point for saying i was gonna buy an Electro-Harmonix 12ay7 preamp... and didnt have the balls to leave his name... haha :D
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
I find the difference between a 57 thru a Behringer and a 57 thru a Great River IS quite significant..... so much so that the 57 thru the GR sounds like an entirely different mic altogether! :cool:

I think a 57 through a GR sounds just like... a 57 through a great river...
 
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