desperate for start-up help

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stumpEd

New member
Hello all,

I hope I'm not re-inventing the wheel here, buT I've searched this site (and others) for hours, and I haven't found the answer to my question.

This could be considered my mission statement:

I would like to record original music at home using an about to be purchased 1.9 gig PC.
I would like to be able to record vocals, guitar, my MIDI keyboard, as well as adding on synth voices.
I would like to add beats/loops that I've composed on the computer.
I would like to sample from CD's that I have.
I don't imagine I'll ever be adding more than 2 tracks at the same time, and mostly,I'll be working with one instrument at a time.
As far as quality, I want something that would sound "professional" to the layperson.

Finally, I'd like to be able to do all of the above without slamming my head into an overly steep learning curve.

So, what might be the easiest, most efficient and cost-effective way to set this up?

What components do I need to purchase so that I can plug everything in, and for the two weeks of vacation that I have upcoming, gloriously make music?

I do know I'll need some kind of music program (cakewalk, logic, etc.), but what is bogging me down is the hardware required to handle guitar, vocals, MIDI keyboard.

One reason I am so confused is that I have gotten various answers to this question, including:

1) Santa Cruz Turtle Beach soundcard

(others have since told me this is really an amateur piece of equipment, and would still require pre-amps/mixer for my guitar and vocal inputs, and should just be avoided)

2) delta 44

(but then I would still need the omni box to serve as my vocal/guitar pre-amp/mixer? but the music store guy told me this would be too complicated a set-up, and overkill as far as what I think I want to do, and that the learning curve would kill me)

3) terratex dmx67

(I'm not sure if this has the preamps I think I need for my guitar and vocal)

3) tascam digital mixer that plugs into a usb port, and does what a sound card would do.

(recommended by music store guy for simplicity, but I'm not sure if he was just trying to get rid of the blue thing)

At this point I'm overwhelmed; I'm fairly certain that I'm not an unintelligent person, but my right now my head is spinning.

What I think I've learned is that in addition to the PC, I need a sound card; and furthermore, recording vocals and guitar will require pre-amp. I'm not certain where the mixer fits into this, and if mixing requires a piece of hardware, or is done on the computer screen.

I'm also assuming that most synth and DSP (which is what produces effects like reverb?) is now handled by software.

My biggest fear is purchasing something, getting home, being very excited to start, and realizing that I'm missing a necessary component.

(n case price is an issue, I'll mention that I'd like not to spend not more than $500 on recording gear.)

most appreciatively,
stUmped
 
stumpED,

Given the $500 budget you've set, you'd be hard pressed to find a solution that will give the results you're looking for.

The M-Audio Omni Studio (Bundled package = Delta66 and Omni I/O) will cost a minumum of $389 all by itself. You will also need to figure in a vocal mic, which will cost you anwhere between $80 and several thousand (an excellent choice would be the MXL v67 for $99). Do you have monitor speakers? If not, figure in at least a few hundred more, plus if you don't buy powered monitors, you'd have to get a power amp. You'd need cables/interconnects (which can get quite costly, very quickly). And lastly, you'd need software to make this stuff all work together...which if you buy the Omni Studio comes with a customized version of Logic (for Win9x platforms only).

So, I'm thinking a bigger budget will be needed to get semi-pro quality. If you can't raise the budget, then you'll have to go with lesser quality gear and probably not get the results you're looking for.
 
First off, this computer you're getting...is it pre-built? Are you getting a good deal on it? The reason I ask is because you could probably save a little money building your own, if you feel comfortable doing that.

As to soundcard choice, based upon your requirements, it seems like you could get by with an Audiophile 2496 from M-Audio. It has 2 ins, 2 outs, S/PDIF i/o, and MIDI i/o. It has the same converters as the Delta 44, so quality should be the same.

You will need a preamp if you plan on using a mic, and the M-Audio DMP3 seems like a pretty good value. Other users here have had positive things to say about it.

You are somewhat right in assuming that synth and DSP are done on the computer. They can be done on the computer, or with outboard gear. If you plan on using softsynths (Reaktor, FM7, etc...) then it would behoove you to get a MIDI controller keyboard. These can be had for as little as $75 or so. The Oxygen8 over at midiman.com looks pretty interesting and is pretty cheap. It's not gonna feel like playing a Steinway, but it'll suffice for getting your ideas into your computer.

You should be able to get those three things (2496, DMP3, Oxygen8) for under $500.
 
stumpEd,

I think elevate has good advice for ya. Since you're planning on recording guitar, vocals, midi, etc., I assume you've got your musical gear (cords, cables, etc.) already. I was in the same spot you're in a few weeks ago. I ended up getting the Omni bundle that LooneyTunez mentions, and, yea there is a learning curve but you know what? None of this gear does it all for you.

The reason I got the Omni was that, kinda like you, I didn't want to get home and realize that, crap, I need pre-amps or cable converters and whatever else. The Omni has 2 built-in preamps and is a 'breakout box' that gives you easy access to all your ins/outs. The M-Audio 2496 doesn't come with a breakout box. I actually bought the the M-Audio 2496, thought about it for a couple more days, then took it back and got the Omni bundle.
I'm still learning but I'm having a hell of a time.

Good luck,
 
StumpEd- Yes you are reinventing the wheel.

The soundcards and computers section has lots of info for you. You can also check out the specific brand forums for other info.

I'm not being a dickhead, just letting you know that your situaton is very common.
 
texroadkill,

I respectfully disagree; I spent >3 hrs searching through all the relevant threads of computers and soundcards on this BBS, and could not find answers to my questions.

There were random posts about the delta or about programs...but no posts actually covered all aspects of setting up a system from scratch.

I looked for answers to my questions; but couldn't find them. THat's why I posted.



stumPed
 
No sweat dude. We are all here to learn and help. I just want to emphasize that 95% of the posts here apply to your EXACT situation. Obviously not all in one post. I'm not a forum nazi, if nobody was allowed to ask repeat questions then there would be very little posting here at all. I just didnt want you to think that was a lack of pertinent info for you.

If you want to make an informed decision you need to study up on the main elements of the recording chain-

Recorder (HDD, DAW, Analog multi)

SoundCard (Delta and others)

PreAmp or mixer (many, many options)

Mics (many, many options)

If you look around all the info here pertains to those items and therefore YOU. Since you have yet to buy your options are wide open. Take a month or two and study before you buy if you only want to buy the stuff once.
 
LOL, I think it's funny nobody mentions the price of software... LOL...

www.bayviewproaudio.com has 1010LT (multiple input soundcard) w/ FREE MICROPHONE AND FREE SAMPLITUDE for $380. You'll need an extra phantom power box for the mic (which is large-diaphragm, which is good fer yer vocals and such), but otherwise you'd be set!

$380. www.bayviewproaudio.com You have to call and mention the mic and Samplitude. You also get goodies from M-Audio in the 1010LT package, as well...

Some here would point you to N-Tracks, which is free or absurdly cheap. I haven't used it, but that might be the best way to manage your tracks for "free."
 
I would recommend that you don't spend a ton of money to get started. You can easily get started for under $500.

For software I would be one of those who would recommend N-track, available at www.fasoft.com for $42 USD for the 16 bit version. The free demo will let you try it out, you just won't be able to save your results. There are lots of people using this low cost software with great results. You download the demo and the manual from the site. Follow the link on the page to the discussion area where you will find gobs of info ranging from basics on gettting started to detailed hardware and software advice.

For hardware (sound card) you didn't say what's coming in your new computer. If you have integrated sound it probably won't be very good. If it comes with a SoundBlaster Live you are in business (for starters, anyway). If not they are available cheap. You can record 2 tracks at a time because the line in on your sound card will be stereo. You can record them as stereo, or 2 mono tracks.

You will want to use the line in on the sound card for recording, the mic inputs on low cost sound cards that come standard with computers are notoriously poor sounding. Therefore, you need some kind of external preamp to get the mic signal up to line level.

Regarding mics, I would recommend you start with the ubiquitus Shure SM57 (~80 USD). It's a dynamic mic, it has been around forever, and is used by professionals worldwide. Another thing to considder is that you will always be able to unload it easily if you decide recording is not for you. If you want to spring for a condensor, I also have the v67M (was on sale at Musicians Fiend for $100) and it is excellent. You will need a source of phantom power if you go that route.

An external mixer will have preamps inside, or you can get a dedicated preamp. Since you want to do 2 tracks at once you're gonna need 2 channels of preamplification. Before I learned of the poor corporate reputation of Behringer, I purchased a cheap ($100) MX802a mixer that has 8 channels and 4 with phantom power. However, after I learned of the way they operate (steal) I have decided not to give them any more of my money. You should be able to find something else for a reasonable price. Your mixdown, and effects, can be done with software.

There is a guy at the n-track forum who says "if you can't make a hit recording with a stick mic and a sound blaster, you probably can't make a hit recording". All the gear in the world won't substitute for knowledge and practice.

Hope this helps, criticism of my opinions welcomed !
 
P.S. Avoid the USB thingey, you don't need it for this $500 setup... and probably don't need it at all.

Shoot for a decent soundcard (Delta makes all the ones we've been talking about, for the most part, and I'm diggin' how easy the setup was on mine).

Definitely get a 57 at some point, but that $380 deal comes with a condensor already. I think that's your best bet.

Outside of that, get plenty of memory for your system when you buy it. Avoid Millenium like the plague, and you might sniff around here to see what products are "XP Hell" w/ their drivers... I don't think Delta series cards suffer from this, btw...

Again, the 1010LT looks to be a great card and deal. I think you'd appreciate it, and while you're on the phone with them (whatever number at www.bayviewproaudio.com 's site), ask him what he recommends. That guy will try and help with what setup you're looking for...

What else have you considered? (avoid that Pebble Beach thingey, too, lol. really, REALLY consider getting something by M-Audio).
 
thanks & follow-up ?s

ThanKS for all the shared wisdOm--muCh appreciateD.

I haVe a few quEstions raised by yr posTs:

1) Is anyone familiar with the Tascam US428? The muSic store empolyee told me that this USB interface is the way I should go, because it simply requires any computer with a USB (such as a lap top)? An eMusic magazine also put in a good word for these devices. Are there any drawbacks to this? The fact that it can be hooked up to a lap-top seems like a huge strength to me.

2) I've had quite a few people recommend either the delta44/omni or the delta 1010lt. Are there any important differences between these two set-ups? I've tried to review the speCs for these, and I'm not sure I understand what differentiates them. THey both are soundcards/mixer/preamps?

3) Am I correct in assuming that a lot of hardware/software isn't compatible with windows XP? Is this the standard OS that comes on compuTers these days? If so, is there a drawback to not utilizing this OS?

For those who have asked, I'm not sure what computer system I'll be getting. Definately windows-based.

aPpreciatively,
[slightly less] sTumped
 
The 1010LT has "10" inputs (8 easy to use, 2 spdif (which you probably can't use for a bit). It also has 10 outputs in the same manner (except two of the inputs are XLR w/ preamp, and the outputs are straight RCA, like you see on consumer television/audio stuff). The Delta 44 is four inputs/four outputs (not sure if it has preamps in it already, I think it might).

The Delta 44 is a good card, too. I just point out the 1010LT because there's a great deal on it out there right now...

Yup.

Oh, there's nothing wrong with non-XP systems. XP is geared for "multimedia," but that probably won't help much for real recording because consumer multimedia isn't what recording is. Fancy interface, too, and built-in support for wireless networking. I'd look into 2000 Professional or Win98. If you go XP, get XP Professsional (not Home).
 
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