Demonstration of mic technic for choir

[tenkas]

I have some samples of some recording I did in a small church. It was a 45 members choir and they played with a Baroque Organ, which is beautiful, very nice bass pedals.

I did some spaced pair micing, multiple positions and ORTF with my new Studio Project C4.

I would like to know if any one knows where I could upload the files (just mp3's) because I do not have any server or host.

I believe that when I was doing the PMC, someone had a server for free somewhere.

Thanks

 

[wannabecomedeat]

www.soundclick.com

 

[mshilarious]

That's NL5's site:

http://www.lightningmp3.com/

 

[tenkas]

Finally, after getting back my laptop, I can upload the files.

The clips are lower down.

First, this is close a 45 members choir and it was recorded in a church with a triangular ceiling. The first part of the show was in the back of the church where the choir sang with the organ, and the second part is in the front of the church.

I did not have any options for hanging mics, and I did not have many choices for mic positions because the choir moves a lot, dances, etc.

For the first part, I had to have my mics on the first floor, while they were singing on the second floor with the organ in the back.
The only 2 mics used were studio project C4.

Clips:

Spaced 1 : http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=2243
This is 2 omni spaced pair, around 12 feet appart and pretty far from the choir (Since I am on the first floor). I would say at least 40-50 feet from the choir.

Spaced 2: http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=2244
Same spacing as the first one, but 10 feet closer to the choir, still on the first floor.

Spaced 3: http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=2245
Same distance from the choir as spaced 2, but this time the spacing between the 2 omnis is 6 feet.

ORTF: http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=2242
This is the same distance from the choir as spaced 2 and spaced 3, but with an ORTF (2 cardioids 17cm appart, 110 degree).


These are the 4 clips for the first part of the concert.
The Omnis give much more bass, a lot more high end with the ORTF.


Now for the second part

Clips:

Spaced_card : http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=2246
The choir is now back on the first floor, so I put a boom on each end of the stage, about 10 feet from the choir's front extremity (diagonaly) using 2 cardioid mics.

Spaced_omni: http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=2247
Same as Spaced_card but with omni mics.


I did these experiment during the preshow (is that a word???) so I had a lot of time to move the stuff, experiment.

The recording chain is :

Studio project C4 --> Presonus Firepod --> Laptop

That's all!

Comments are welcome, thanks for taking time to listen and thanks to NL5 for his server, it really rocks!

 

[tenkas]

I just realised that maybe this post belongs in RECORDING TECHNICS, so if any admin wants to move it, I would be pleased since double posting is, in my opinion, a CRIME

 

[tenkas]

Anyone finds this useful or would like to comment?

(last bump)

 

[Kasey]

very interesting experiment. I think my favorite clip was 'spaced 3'. it had the best amount of room sound in it in my opinion. granted, i am listening to these on little desktop speakers, but these sound pretty nice. I think there might have been some slight phase issues with "spaced 2', it doesnt sound as full as 'spaced 3' but maybe thats just because the mics were a little further away or something.

 

[Big Kenny]

Definitely spaced three, the rest was either muddy or overridden by that organ
I liked the ORTF for definition, but it got a little thin......maybe with a different mic

 

[tenkas]

ORTF is the one I chose because the choir director prefered the definition.

I would have liked to combine 3 mics but only had a pair on my hands.

Thanks a lot for the comments

 

[BigRay]

I dont know...If im being honest here, Id say none of them sounded too hot.
Spaced 3 sounded the best...but all of them sounded kind of distant and muddy.

maybe acoustics had a lot to do with it??the c4s are capable of great recordings.(though they do add a bit of color "warmth" as it were, and maybe not the best choice for classical recording)..so I dont know what the issue was???Omnis are a great choice, and I have had the best results with a meter spaced pair. I have heard (and found out myself)that it is a good rule of thumb to add a pair of mics per every 12-15 persons. Spaced omni mains, (meter) and Cardiod Flankers(pair for every 12 persons)..Im just throwing suggestions out there. I didnt want to blow smoke and give you false impressions. Ive had my recordings ripped to shreds before, but it ultimately is helping me...Maybe if your budget allows it, save up about 600 USD(you can get 250 or so for the c4s i think) and get a pair of DPA 4061s for that sort of enviroment..Very flat mics, and just sing on acoustic music....Work especially well with a jdisc.

Sorry man..hope i didnt piss you off. Just wanted to be honest.(of course it maybe possible that my ears are crap)

 

[tenkas]

Well this was a recording were I was VERY limited for placement... I would have like to get closer to the choir, but you wouldn't believe how far I was, and the choir direector was ok with the sound everything was right at the end...

Next time, I will try to get closer in ORTF, which will get me a fuller sound I hope.

 

[Big Kenny]

I think you did great with what you had to work with, each time it'll get a little better. The ORTF was definitely the right direction

 

[mshilarious]

The Omnis give much more bass, a lot more high end with the ORTF.

I can't make any useful comments about the clips since all I have is an internal PC speaker at the moment but that bass response is simply a function of the different capsules of the C4. So what you have set up is a test where the omnis will have superior bass response, but maybe a poorer stereo field (and perhaps thus less apparent definition) than the cardioids. As BigRay mentioned, put the omnis a little closer together, use a baffle (you can make a cheap one out of a 12" quilting hoop, loose-weave fabric, and some insulation--or batting since you're already in the quilt shop ), and try to get a bit closer.

 

[evm1024]

I'm no expert on this.... But I do know something about pipe organs.

Organs have the largest range of any instrument. Plus their acoustic output is somewhat greater than anything else. It takes a very large choir to equal full organ of even a modest pipe organ.

Reverberation in a large church (not your case) can exceed 6 seconds. This will tend to reduce tonal clarity. Bach and others often composed to harmonize with the reflections ( of specific churches).

Using omni mics will pick up a significant degree of reflections. More directional mics for the organ and choir may lead to better sounding recordings. Omni might be better for organ solo with precise placements of the mics. This was not an option for you as I understand it.

Keep us (me) informed of how it is going and what you have learned. I am slowly rebuilding up my equipment to record pipe organ and choir again after a 20 year pause.... I intend to use "pure" 2 mic placements after careful study of the room and organ acoustics.