Delta 44 & 66 Audio Cards

[Cuzin B]

KEV,

All I can think of (since you say you are only getting -42db of gain) is that one of your cables is causing a low load (could be that Y cable - I ditch those at all costs).

When recording my POD, I use 2 DigiMax 10 footers (1/4 inch male plug on both ends) into channels 1 and 2 on my Omni studio. Note: The Omni Studio box provides 2 high quality preamps on channels 1 and 2 so maybe that why I don't have any level problems. The Omni channels 3+4 are straight line ins (just like the Delta breakout box) but you MUST have the input for 3 and 4 on +10db (On the Hardware Tab of the Delta software). Also - make damn sure your POD is set to record Line Out NOT Amp out (check that little slider on the top left of the POD).

As noted earlier, I barely bring the level up to maybe 2 or 3 on the Omni channels and the POD signal is WAY loud....that's why I keep my Output (On POD) at around 4...that is more than enough jam for any session.

Lemme know what you find out.

Cuzin B

 

[Kevzmusic]

OK, with regard to your last comments...

I can now get a high gain recording input signal from the POD (right up to 0db) "IF" I select the -10dBV on Line 1 in on the hardware page, and turn the POD output level up to about 7.

I guess YOU are getting a much stronger signal coz of the ONMI pre-amp boost. I will check out the price difference today, and see if I can get the full OMNI set up. Which I'm gonna need for microphones anyways.

Please note.....I am using high quality (gold plated) RCA leads with gold adapters 2 x 1/4" jacks at both ends, so in essence, I'm really hooked up the same way that you are.

YES, I do have the POD setting to line out direct and not AMP - of course.

I also notice, that when I RECORD that the Line IN 1/2 have different signal strenths. For example line 1 is stronger than line two, which kinda gives me an un-symmetrical recorded waveform.

Over,

KEV

 

[Cuzin B]

Kev,

In regards to this:

"Please note.....I am using high quality (gold plated) RCA leads with gold adapters 2 x 1/4" jacks at both ends, so in essence, I'm really hooked up the same way that you are."

You are not hooked up the same way. Most RCA jacks have a different wiring scheme and carry a different line level (I don't have my Radio Shack cable tester in front of me right now). I used to think they were the same until I was given a good educational on wiring a while back.

Just for a test - lose the RCA cables and adapters and get a real 1/4 inch cable and give it a try - you will probably find that your levels will be just fine.

Cuzin B

 

[Kevzmusic]

So,

you mean just use TWO regular cables with 1/4" jacks at both ends from the POD output channels into the breakout box IN 1/2.
(I guess they don't have to be 'gold'plated, I haven't seen many regular 1/4" leads that are)....

PS, I'm gonna check out the OMNI/Delta 66 price, is it really worth the extra $200 bucks? (over the plain 66 box set up)???

cheers mate for all yer help

KEV

 

[Cuzin B]

kEV,

Yep - make sure you get instrument cables for this connection. There are a pile of different cables out there with 1/4 inch jacks on the ends.

As far as the Omni goes...depends waht you are doing in your studio. Me - I just couldn't use the standard breakout at all. I have keyboards, the POD....mics...CD players, rack effects...you name it and the Omni allows me to hook up all this stuff and mix and match to my liking. The bloody thing is so flexible...you won't regret it....

I have often thought I might wanna get a Mackie or something but everytime I think of something new, the Omni comes through. Just the fact that it interfaces so sweet with the Delta is worth the 200 bucks....I haven't run into any situation that I could not handle with the Omni - expect maybe recording a live band with tons of inputs.

Cuzin B

 

[Kevzmusic]

OK CUZ

On your advice & recommendations I just went back to the store and exchanged my Delta 66 for the OMNI STUDIO set up.....paid the extra $195 CDN.

SO, ya know what this means don't ya.....now I'm gonna be asking yours truly a few questions whilst I get this rig all sorted out, etc...

I hope ya don't mind too much

I hear that the folks in Alberta are real nice anyways.

Actually we used to live out west ourselves. In the West Kootenay Mountains of BC (New Denver & Nelson) Slocan Valley - a very beautiful spot.

When I get this OMNI set up I'll give ya a shout...

KEV

 

[Cuzin B]

Kev,

AttaBoy! Now you will see what this setup can really do. Honestly, I think it will take you about a day or two to get the feel for the mixer design and then you will not look back.

I consider myself to be pretty adept at this stuff, but this rig has a ton of depth...spend time with the manuals and don't be afraid to try a few things....just get some decent cables and ask questions....I will be waiting....


Cheers,

Cuzin B

 

[Kevzmusic]

Fanks alot CUZ

Set up the OMNI lat night....put the POD output at 4 (like you said)....turned the 1/2 input gains up to only about 10'oclock position and whammo - rock on Tommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At those settings the recording levels and VOL is perfect for RECORDING, plus the sound coming from my headphones (via the OMNI headphone out) is clean & sweet as a whistle

Hey, my guitars sound just like Dave Gilmour on a good night

I do still have that buzz/hum from my Crap speakers...but as you say, that's gotta be a cable/lead prob and won't be a factor when I hook up the new Sirocco System via SPDIF....

The ONMI headphone output is extremely clean with NO background noise, even cranked right up.

I just played the guitars until about 3:30 am this morning, recorded a few tracks, couldn't put it down.

The wife said I'm just like a big KID with a new TOY

and she's right.......

OK, so now you can expect a few questions with regard to the mixing features and perhaps recording options....

In due course - of course,

MUCHO THANX Canadian Cuz,

KEV

 

[Cuzin B]

Kev,

Well...there ya go. I would bet that 195.00 bucks is not buggin' ya too much now.

No problem with the questions...fire away. I just like to pass on stuff that I asked when I was getting used to my Omni over a year ago...

Just wait until you start recording and mixing - next Q - What kind of software are you using to capture all your groovy tones?

Cuzin B

 

[Kevzmusic]

Hi Cuz,

WEll, I've been playing guitars n stuff for more than 30 years...but I'm pretty new to PC recording, et.

To date, I've been using ACID Pro to create my TUNES, mainly coz it's such an easy, straightforward program to use. (especially when it comes to aditing a whole bunch of tracks, loops, drums, etc., together) Plus I record files in EDIT 2000 PRO, which seems to have a slightly better recording playback quality to it.

I create synth sounds in REASON too - but I'm not that great at it - yet!

I know that CUBASE is the best musicians program (and I do have it & Pro Tools as well, coz my Bro is a ftp wizzo-crack merchant) and gets ANYTHING I want for free).

I guess I should now make the effort to learn CUBASE - right? Everybody seems to be using it.

Which software progs do YOU suggest I use for recording, mixing, editing, etc ????

Here's the link to a few of my tunes on ACIDplanet.com.
They don't include any 'guitar' tracks yet, coz I was waiting until I found audio set up I wanted - now I have
My next tune "The Traveller" will have a lot of original guitar pieces on it.

http://www.acidplanet.com/Lounge/ArtistDetail.asp?ArtistID=78884

10 - 4, over to you...

KEV

 

[Cuzin B]

Kev,

Couple of things first (excuse me while I climb up on my soapbox):

1. Part of the fun of particpating in these forums is the exchange of information. However, sometimes you show too much of your hand. Between you and me and the fencepost - it is not a good idea to boast about your bro being a "FTP crack merchant". The fact that you may be using pirated apps will probably result in no one ever answering you again in these forums. Could also lead to something a whole lot worse (like a software company looking you up) since your profile is right in plain view for the world to see.

2. Having said all that - If you are serious about your music (and it's sounds like you are), be cool but be legit. Buy your gear. Buy your software.

Now - let me climb down of my soapbox and return to the matters at hand....

For my standard broadcast tracking, I use a combination of Sonic Foundry Soundforge (to track my voicework) and then bring the finished bits and pieces into Sonic Foundry Vegas. You mentioned Acid - but that is really not intended for multi tracking (even tho it looks like it is). I use Acid for creating music beds and loop based music - I never record into it tho. Vegas is just much more flexible.

For my music creation - I step it up a notch and turn to Steinberg Nuendo - probably the finest audio app I have ever used. From VST audio transport to super effects and razor editing, it rules. Easy learning curve too.

Cubase? I know a lot of folks that use it and I know a lot of real good musicians who do not. If you do a lot of MIDI stuff, that's a good choice. If you are going to Cubase - watch for the new Cubase SX this summer....it looks like a real good package.

Cuzin B

 

[Kevzmusic]

Hi CUZ,

How's things in cow town?.

We've got an early spring heatwave happening here in Toronto at the moment. It was 30c (86F) today with a 'humidex' reading of 35c (95F)......ya gotta just love that humidity

OK, so I've been using the OMNI for a day now, and I've pretty much got the M-Audio Control Panel down pat. It's quite simple when ya spends a few hours with it

The audio quality from the headphone outs is really GREAT, so clean and no background noise whatsoever. I still get that Buzz/hum from my crappy speakers....but it happens when the PC is turned off, so like you say, it's gotta be the speaker cables themselves. I can't wait for my new system to arrive from the UK.

The guitars thru the POD are equally as clean, and definitely no 'recording' signal gain probs this time. I guess the POD's pre-amp, simply doesn't do the same job as the OMNI's (?)

I'm listening to CD playback at the moment (Pink Floyd's Division Bell) using WINAMP, and the audio is really good. I'm hearing sounds that I never even knew existed before...

I shall be using the OMNI for recording guitars, keyboords, vocals & accoustics, etc...so it looks like this little number is just what I needed.

THANKS again mate - When I get more into the recording/mixing stages, etc., I.' sure that I shall have a few further questions for ya

Regards,

KEV

 

[Kevzmusic]

Hey Cuz,

I notice that there are now BETA drivers available for the Delta 66 cards.....are YOU using them, do they make much difference to the OMNI control panel setup, etc???

Just wondered,

KEV

 

[Cuzin B]

Kev,

My primary rule for our main studio is "If it ain't broke - don't fix it...matter of fact - don't even look at it!"

My secondary rule is "Downtime is not an option"

I am rolling with 5.10.00.26 currently and while I have all the information on the new beta 27 driver from M-Audio - I won't move my production card to it until it's final.

I have 4 projects on the go right now...so I really can't afford any driver nonsense.

Actually I have found the 26 driver to be the very best they have put out for Windows 200 anyway...it is extemely stable...I have never had one single issue since I installed it back in December...that's reason enough to stay with it.

Cheers,

Cuzin B

 

[Kevzmusic]

Cuz,

Well, actually....those are my sentiments entirely.....'IF it ain't broke - don't even touch it"

However, in this case...coz I don't really have any super important pending projects to screw up...I thought I'd install the BETA drivers to see what happens.....and,

Nuffink much.......the Control Panel looks just the same, and I don't notice anything different....

All seems to be working fine like before.

KEV

 

[darnold]

The Delta 44 is a great card. I have used two of them simultaneously for 8 inputs for about 1 and half years. Had a few problems with drivers when running the two, but never when i was only running one. The problems can be easily fixed though. Also im trying to sell mine (they are in new condition) so if you want to just buy some used ones look me up. I will possibly be willing to sell just 1 but it depends.

This was probably stated above but i havnt read through everything. The hum is probably comming from the cables you are using. +4dbu is what the delta card uses which requires balanced TRS cables. This type of output and cable uses almost double the amount of voltage. If the cable is not balanced and it is trying to use it balanced, there will not be a 3rd wire to cancel out the noise and thus you have the hum. Just my theory at least.

Darnold

 

[Kevzmusic]

Hi Darnold....

Yeah, ya kinda have to read the thread here a bit

Anyhow, I tried the Delta 66 for a while, but finally went with the OMNI Studio set up...

The audio quality is great, and the pre-amp features for my mics, guitars, etc.., is just what I need....

Thanks for the offer on the 44's though

"Cheers"

KEV

 

[gordone]

To clarify, balanced/unbalanced and +4/-10 are two seperate things. While it is true that balanced usually means +4, you can definitely have +4 coming out of an unbalanced piece of equipment which uses TS Cables. My Great River MP2 is unbalanced, but it puts out +4 into my Delta 44 using XLR->TS Cables.

<snip>
This was probably stated above but i havnt read through everything. The hum is probably comming from the cables you are using. +4dbu is what the delta card uses which requires balanced TRS cables. This type of output and cable uses almost double the amount of voltage. If the cable is not balanced and it is trying to use it balanced, there will not be a 3rd wire to cancel out the noise and thus you have the hum. Just my theory at least.

Darnold

 

[Kevzmusic]

Hi CUZ,

I was just wondering what YOU think of the Digidesign Digi 001 studio set up campared with the OMNI/Delta system?

It seems to me that these two products are very similar in basicfunctionality, etc...but the Digi 001 is quite a bit more expensive at approx $799 USD, and of course incorporates the Pro Tools software bundle.

As YOU have your own recording/voice-over biz, I was curious as to whether or not, you'd consdered buying the Digi, before getting the OMNI? The Pro Tools gear always sounds so great in the reviews etc, is it really much better.

Don't get me wrong, my OMNI sounds great....but I'm always curious

10 - 4, over....

KEV
PS. what a wcky month here in Toronto - weather-wise, we've had 31c degree heat, and now snow (today) all in the space of one week. I gues that's CANADA for ya - eh!

 

[Kevzmusic]

Hi CUZ,

I was just wondering what YOU think of the Digidesign Digi 001 studio set up campared with the OMNI/Delta system?

It seems to me that these two products are very similar in basic functionality, etc...but the Digi 001 is quite a bit more expensive at approx $799 USD, and of course incorporates the Pro Tools software bundle.

As YOU have your own recording/voice-over biz, I was curious as to whether or not, you'd actually consdered buying the Digi, before getting the OMNI? The Pro Tools gear always sounds so great in the reviews etc, is it really that much better?

Don't get me wrong, my OMNI sounds great....but I'm always curious

10 - 4, over....

KEV
PS. what a wcky month here in Toronto - weather-wise, we've had 31c degree heat, and now snow (today) all in the space of one week. I gues that's CANADA for ya - eh!