Delayed Write Failed

[Monkey Allen]

Bit of a problem here...

I was in the middle of recording a 3rd overdub/ track to my software GTP3 and it froze and I got this error..."Windows - Delayed Write Failed". Naturally, I lost everything.

I am recording via a Presonus Firebox...a firewire connected external sound card into my PC. PC mobo is an ASUS AV8 Deluxe. It comes with onboard firewire port.

I'm saving the incoming data to a slaved SATA (ST380817 AS 80g).

From what I gather, the problem is a firewire port one. Something to do with WXP SP2. Fixes include: turning off UDMA settings in BIOS...haven't been able to find that particular setting in BIOS yet; or disabling 'write caching' on the HDD.

Anyone come across this problem and beat it? Coz I need some help

thanks

 

[DonF]

... disabling 'write caching' on the HDD. ...

From the error message you quoted, it sounds to me like this would be a good thing to try. Don't know XP, but on 98SE it's done from the "File System" options on the "Performance" tab of the System Properties control panel. I've attached a shot of the relevant dialog. HTH.

 

[fraserhutch]

I would be very careful abpout disabling write caching. Not only will slow you OS noticably, it is treating a symtpom and not the cause.

In my experience. thiese errors generally indficate some sort of hardware problem.

Find related disk error events in your event viewer (right-click on my computer -> Manage -> Event Viewer).
Expand to System.

You might want to post the error messages here.

 

[Monkey Allen]

I see various errors reported in computer management. How do I post those errors?

Also, I don't think it is a physical HD problem. The HD is brand new. I know you can get faulty HD's...but I don't think it is that in this case.

The problem seems to be a SATA/ mobo/ firewire related one...which should be fixable with updated firmware, or alterations to BIOS or to Wndows settings.

I transfered 8gig of data from my main SATA drive to the slave SATA drive a couple of weeks ago...no problem. All the data on the slave is accessible (except what I lost while recording).

Something is up with the transfer of data FROM the Presonus Firebox, through the Firewire port on my mobo, and into my SATA slave drive. Something is up with that chain...not the HD itself. The HD is fine. This is my hunch, of course.

Any further help?

 

[Monkey Allen]

Ok, well I don't know if this has permanently fixed the problem, or if it will rear its ugly head in the future...but this is what I did:

1. Right click My Computer
2. Open Advanced in System Properties
3. Go to Performance Settings
4. Advanced
5. Virtual Memory

Here I got these readings...

for my master SATA drive C: Virtual memory was 1536-3072 Mb
for my slave SATA drive E: Virtual memory was 0 mb

I set the virtual memory for the E: to 1536 mb - 1536 mb

Total paging size for all drives...

Minimun allowed is 2Mb
Recommended is 1534Mb
Currently Allocated (After allocating virtual memory to my slave drive) is 3072Mb

Now, I don't know why my slave drive didn't have any virtual memory allocated to it in the first place, or if it even needs any virtual memory...and I don't know if I have done the wrong thing by allocating it some virtual memory, or if I am stressing my system by basically doubling the Recommended allowance...but I just recorded the same recording that I was doing last night, with no "Delayed Write Failed" message.

Can anyone tell me if I have done the right thing, or if it sounds right?

thanks

 

[Rstiltskin]

Usually delayed write is something implemented in the operating system, to optimize disk writes. The op sys will delay writes till it can push a cluster of writes out to the disk system in the optimum order for performance(say from inside track to out) instead of a middle track, outside track, inside track. This first received widespread use in unix, where you REALLY needed an ups, cause if you got an unexpected power off, you could get something called a time fractured disk(bad, bad, news). this is not the problem it used to be and is generally old news. just like me!

I would have done exactly as you did, and I might have turned off delayed writes in the os and see if that screwed anything up. In digital audio you are stuffing bits down the pipline and the pipline must be emptied on to the disk at a predictable rate, because if the disk is busy and the cache is full, bang, you lose data, like water spilled out of a sink is gone forever. delayed writes is ok if you are surfing or word processing, but if the delayed write algorithm backs up your audio pipeline, data is lost and it can't be lost.

some other things...

make sure you have the latest windows updates, bios version, card drivers, etc.

bitch to all the tech support people from all the vendors, ms, motherboard, card vendor, etc. do the updates first and write all the versions down, cause some of the tech people will try to get rid of you by saying that is fixed in the latest release. If it is a common problem with your configuration, somebody will know and you might get some help.

you might see if you can set the priority of your audio software higher in the operating system.

you might try a defrag on the data drive before you record something long and/or important.

good luck, have a beer, and get a bigger hammer. PM me anytime and I will try to help.

 

[Rstiltskin]

oh yeah, you might want to go to www.videoguys.com and check out their article on setting up and optimizing a system for video. most will be applicable to you because audio and video are both real time data logging in which you can't back up.

 

[Rstiltskin]

Oh, poop, DON'T turn off or fiddle with your udma or any bio setting now. OK?

Bit of a problem here...

I was in the middle of recording a 3rd overdub/ track to my software GTP3 and it froze and I got this error..."Windows - Delayed Write Failed". Naturally, I lost everything.

I am recording via a Presonus Firebox...a firewire connected external sound card into my PC. PC mobo is an ASUS AV8 Deluxe. It comes with onboard firewire port.

I'm saving the incoming data to a slaved SATA (ST380817 AS 80g).

From what I gather, the problem is a firewire port one. Something to do with WXP SP2. Fixes include: turning off UDMA settings in BIOS...haven't been able to find that particular setting in BIOS yet; or disabling 'write caching' on the HDD.

Anyone come across this problem and beat it? Coz I need some help

thanks

I really meeeaaaannnn it!

 

[Monkey Allen]

UDMA...I don't have any UDMA settings. I just 'flashed'/ updated BIOS...seemed a success.

I don't know whether I should allocate any virtual memory to a slave drive. I've done this and don't know if it is bad.

 

[Rstiltskin]

ok, you mentioned direct memory access (dma)...

UDMA...I don't have any UDMA settings. I just 'flashed'/ updated BIOS...seemed a success.

I don't know whether I should allocate any virtual memory to a slave drive. I've done this and don't know if it is bad.

in your first post. this allows mass storage (disk) to put data directly into a place in processor ram memory. you want that.

If the flash of your eprom bios did not work, it usually won't boot.

I think you are on the right track, if you have the time please check out the optimize article at www.videoguys.com. lots of usefull info, at least for me.
I think it will answer your questions about disk settings and virtual memory.

I asked an Ausie friend if Foster's was all that big at home, and he said no. tell me the truth, are you sending us second class beer like the Germans do? Remember, we took the crocadile hunter off your hands for a while! am I spelling crocadile right?

jon

 

[fraserhutch]

I see various errors reported in computer management. How do I post those errors?
[/QUOTE}
You can cut and paste from the event viewer, take the exact steps I outlined earlier.

Also, I don't think it is a physical HD problem. The HD is brand new. I know you can get faulty HD's...but I don't think it is that in this case.

I didn't say it was necessarily a disk problem. However, disks have been known to be defective from the get go, or installed improperly. Could be a driver conflict. Could be a number of things.

The problem seems to be a SATA/ mobo/ firewire related one...which should be fixable with updated firmware, or alterations to BIOS or to Wndows settings.

I transfered 8gig of data from my main SATA drive to the slave SATA drive a couple of weeks ago...no problem. All the data on the slave is accessible (except what I lost while recording).

Something is up with the transfer of data FROM the Presonus Firebox, through the Firewire port on my mobo, and into my SATA slave drive. Something is up with that chain...not the HD itself. The HD is fine. This is my hunch, of course.

Any further help?

Once I get a sampling of the errors in your even viewer.

 

[Monkey Allen]

There are many, many entries in the event viewer. When I right click on one, there is not an option to copy. Double clicked on one and this came up:

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Service Control Manager
Event Category: None
Event ID: 7023
Date: 6/13/2005
Time: 6:27:05 PM
User: N/A
Computer: EARTH
Description:
The IPSEC Services service terminated with the following error:
The authentication service is unknown.

I guess this is one sample of many entries, and quite a few errors. This particular error seems to have been timed from a boot up...when I turned the PC on...it's only minutes old.

Don't know what it means

PS...Fosters is not big here in Australia. Although I did have one big day on it when the local pub was selling it for 1 dollar a pot (glass). 10am - 10pm I was there for. The big beers here are VB (Victoria Bitter) and XXXX

 

[fraserhutch]

There are many, many entries in the event viewer. When I right click on one, there is not an option to copy. Double clicked on one and this came up:

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Service Control Manager
Event Category: None
Event ID: 7023
Date: 6/13/2005
Time: 6:27:05 PM
User: N/A
Computer: EARTH
Description:
The IPSEC Services service terminated with the following error:
The authentication service is unknown.

I guess this is one sample of many entries, and quite a few errors. This particular error seems to have been timed from a boot up...when I turned the PC on...it's only minutes old.

Don't know what it means

PS...Fosters is not big here in Australia. Although I did have one big day on it when the local pub was selling it for 1 dollar a pot (glass). 10am - 10pm I was there for. The big beers here are VB (Victoria Bitter) and XXXX

That's IP Security. Don't worry about that (for this excercise). In fact, we're not really interested in anything based on how recent the error is, what we're really interested in are errors that occured at the time the delayed write failed. You should be looking for errors thast deal with the disk subsystem, memory, IDE, that sort of thing.

Also, if there are a lot of errors, you probably have some significant problems going on, and this is definitely worth investigating. In general, systems should run error-free, or with at most spurious errors.

 

[Monkey Allen]

Ok, how about these errors...

Event Type: Warning
Event Source: Ftdisk
Event Category: Disk
Event ID: 57
Date: 6/12/2005
Time: 10:24:00 PM
User: N/A
Computer: EARTH
Description:
The system failed to flush data to the transaction log. Corruption may occur.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 00 00 00 00 01 00 be 00 ......¾.
0008: 02 00 00 00 39 00 04 80 ....9..€
0010: 00 00 00 00 85 01 00 c0 ....…..À
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........


Event Type: Warning
Event Source: Disk
Event Category: None
Event ID: 51
Date: 6/12/2005
Time: 10:24:00 PM
User: N/A
Computer: EARTH
Description:
An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk1\D during a paging operation.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 04 04 68 00 01 00 b6 00 ..h....
0008: 00 00 00 00 33 00 04 80 ....3..€
0010: 2d 01 00 00 85 01 00 c0 -...…..À
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0028: f9 0c 04 00 00 00 00 00 ù.......
0030: ff ff ff ff 01 00 00 00 ÿÿÿÿ....
0038: 40 00 00 44 00 00 02 00 @..D....
0040: ff 20 0a 12 8c 00 20 40 ÿ ..Œ. @
0048: 00 10 00 00 0a 00 00 00 ........
0050: 00 50 17 86 a8 6f 4f 86 .P.†¨oO†
0058: 00 00 00 00 18 d8 fa 85 .....Øú…
0060: 00 00 00 00 37 00 5e 00 ....7.^.
0068: 2a 00 00 5e 00 37 00 00 *..^.7..
0070: 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0078: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0080: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0088: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........


Event Type: Warning
Event Source: Ntfs
Event Category: None
Event ID: 50
Date: 6/12/2005
Time: 10:19:14 PM
User: N/A
Computer: EARTH
Description:
{Delayed Write Failed} Windows was unable to save all the data for the file . The data has been lost. This error may be caused by a failure of your computer hardware or network connection. Please try to save this file elsewhere.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 04 00 04 00 02 00 52 00 ......R.
0008: 00 00 00 00 32 00 04 80 ....2..€
0010: 00 00 00 00 85 01 00 c0 ....…..À
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0028: 85 01 00 c0 …..À


The 1st one is from the end of my recording, the 2nd one is from the start...according to the times anyway. There are lots around this time in the log. But overal, I have 2 errors every once in a while...regular placed/ spaced errors that may or may not correlate with log ons.

I have since got the SP2 firewire update, and I have updated BIOS. I redid the recording I was doing, with no problems.

What do you make of these posted error logs?

Thanks for your help

PS...apparently firewire connections/ sata drives and raid all were problematic prior to, and without the SP2 update being installed on your PC. I have only recently reinstalled XP on my computer, and I had auto updates turned off. So while I had SP2 on the install, I did not have the updates. Hope all is good now.

 

[fraserhutch]

Whether you choose to believe it or not, it appears that the first and third errors are the result of the second, which was a device error with your harddrive.

So, it may be new, but it is apparently suffering from intermittent failures.

I would suggest perhaps reformatting the drive. If that is not possible, at the very least defragment it and do a surface check (disk check) Select auto-fix errors.

Let me know if that all works ok for you.

 

[Monkey Allen]

Ok, I have done those things...defrag and check disc...I did not format...but I will if I have to.

Maybe I should run my recording software and record some ambient sound for 2 minutes or so....see if the data gets written without fail to the HD.

edit: I recorded a 3 minute track of ambient room noise...then another 3 minute ambient room noise track over the top of that. All went well. The question is, is the incoming data easier to process and write to HD because it is just ambient noise and not instruments...or is that negligible?

 

[fraserhutch]

Ok, I have done those things...defrag and check disc...I did not format...but I will if I have to.

Maybe I should run my recording software and record some ambient sound for 2 minutes or so....see if the data gets written without fail to the HD.

edit: I recorded a 3 minute track of ambient room noise...then another 3 minute ambient room noise track over the top of that. All went well. The question is, is the incoming data easier to process and write to HD because it is just ambient noise and not instruments...or is that negligible?

It makes little difference what is being recorded - you are writing n samples of a given size at a given rate regardless of the waveform (given no compression).

When you checked the disk, did it scan every sector?

I find it hard to believe that a lack of virtual memory would cause a hard disk failure to be reported. That reported error would have been the direct result of a system call to the device layer, and as such should not know anything about disk caching. So, my opinion is that you have a flaky disk or some ofher hardware issue. However, I could be wrong, but that is what the 2nd error reported about indicates to me.

 

[Monkey Allen]

Yeah, and what have you got to say about the reported problems with Windows SP2, Firewire, SATA HD's and RAID. That's the chain I am using...and that chain has been said to be problematic in XP SP2 without the latest updates. When the problem occured I did not have all updates.

Now that I have got the updates, which apparently resolve the conflicts between firewire/ sata, I have test recorded with no problem.

I am not ready to point the finger at a faulty drive as I have had no troubles accessing data from there, and have copied over 8gig of files to that drive.

 

[fraserhutch]

Yeah, and what have you got to say about the reported problems with Windows SP2, Firewire, SATA HD's and RAID. That's the chain I am using...and that chain has been said to be problematic in XP SP2 without the latest updates. When the problem occured I did not have all updates.

Now that I have got the updates, which apparently resolve the conflicts between firewire/ sata, I have test recorded with no problem.

I am not ready to point the finger at a faulty drive as I have had no troubles accessing data from there, and have copied over 8gig of files to that drive.

Well, OK it's your life. I can tell you what your error files indicate. You are now free to do with it as you wish. If you lose more data, you lose more data.

At least now you have a better understanding of where to go to get diagnostic help. what you do with it is up to you.

Fraserhutch out.

 

[Monkey Allen]

I knew you wouldn't like that last post of mine. I thank you for your help. You've been great. But you still haven't offered a comment on the SP2/ Firewire/ RAID/ SATA problems pre update. You're looking at it from a hardware perspective, I am looking at it from a driver/ software perspective. So, how about a comment on the above?