Deciphering GuitarTracks filenames

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I have a musician friend who is recording some of his own stuff using GuitarTracks v2 and he'd like me to do some re-mixing/mastering for him. I'd like to use my own non-Cakewalk NLEs and outboard gear for that, meaning I'd have to take the native WAV files recorded by GT2 and move them over to my environment.

I have found where GT2 stores the WAV files, but unfortunately GT2 uses its own internal method for naming the files with semi-gibberish codenames. There is no provision in GT2 for saving and naming the recorded WAV files yourself. This makes it difficult -- and verty time consuming -- for me to ID just which WAV file is which. I can look at date/time stamps on the files, but that does not help much unless I know the exact date and time that any desired take was originally recorded; and for multiple takes that were recorded just minutes apart, this can get even more confusing.

So, the question is, does anybody know the algorithm used by GT2 to create their WAV filenames, allowing one to try and make more sense out of which one is which?

TIA,

G.

 

[Strryder]

You should be able to open the session and export each track one at a time into a new folder, I haven't used GTP2 in a long time but I'm pretty sure that there is an export audio option in the file menu.

Make sure to remove any unwanted effects and automation before exporting, I would mute all tracks and then unmute them one at a time for export, in Sonar 2 when you're exporting a track, a dialog box comes up that allows you to name the exported track whatever you want, this should also consolidate all tracks/clips to start at "0" on the timeline which would make importing them into another program much easier.

There's a thread back a little way in this forum about importing Sonar 2 tracks into Pro Tools, I gave a pretty good rundown of the process in that thread.

 

[dachay2tnr]

I would also do it as Stryder suggests - export one track at a time to a separate wave file. This will allow you to name it whatever you want.

In addition to the cryptic naming convention, there are other issues in using Guitar Track's native files. For ex., if you have done any dubbing, or edits to the tracks, you might find that there are actually multiple waves for a single track. Easiest way to insure you get what you hear, is to solo the track and export it.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

D'oh! Thanks.

Thanks for the replies, gang,

After your posts, I went back and looked at the GT2 menu structure and did indeed find an export feature that looks like it will work. The reason I missed it earlier is because it is located under a menu entry called "Mixdown Tracks" (mixing down is exactly what I am NOT looking to do ). But it does appear that regardless of the name and location, that there is an option to export a single track and "mix it down" to a mono WAV file.

It still would be easier (and far more logical to my way of thinking) to just be able to use the original WAVs instead of going through the gyrations of "exporting" what is essentially just another copy of them. Oh well, unless/until I can talk him into switching to another editor, I'll deal with it without complaint. What are friends for, after all?

BTW, I have seen what you are talking about with the "multiple copies" of the WAV data files. Perhaps I can pay you back a little by shedding a little light there as well. The following analysis is based only upon a couple of initial hours of sitting down with and learning GT2 for the first time, and may not be entirely accurate or complete. But I think it's a reasonable start...

As best as I can tell what happens is GT saves a rendered version of the WAV after non-realtime processing has been applied to the take. For example, if you normalize the take (not recommended in general practice, but I tried it as an expiriment anyway), a new, normalized copy of the file is created. However if you apply something that GT can handle in real time and can simply be registered in the "Work File" EDL, then a new rendering is not performed.

It appears one can ID original VS rendered/copy WAV data files by the two letter prefix in the filename: RC appears to be the oribinal recording and MX appears to be a rendered version. But unfortunately the rest of the file names remain cyphered.

G.

 

[Strryder]

Besides the wave file name discrepancy, another "biggie" in doing it using the export function is to consolidate all of the exported wave files to begin at "0" on the timeline, without this being done there could be audio "clips" as Cakewalk calls them, that start somewhere else in the song, such as a lead guitar break, without consolidating the track to start at "0", the lead guitar wave will get placed at "0" when imported into a different program, manually lining things up correctly can range from difficult to impossible, this is why exporting OMF and/or Broadcast Wave Files (BWF) have been implemented in newer, and higher quality programs.

Cakewalk introduced "per project" audio folders in Sonar 2, this feature is now available in both Home Studio 2 and Guitar Tracks Pro 3, this helps a great deal by keeping all wave files for a project stored in an audio folder that's inside of the project's own folder, and changes have been made to the cryptic nature of the wave file names, all in all, it's a much easier setup for backing up project sessions, but this alone doesn't overcome the issue of consolidating all tracks to "0" for importing into a different program.

As dachay noted, another thing that consolidating tracks with the export function helps with is exporting only what is needed for each track, within a single track there could be many different wave files referenced, let's say, 6 or 8 overdubs that might have been edited and comp'ed together as a series of clips to create a single lead guitar or vocal track, just grabbing all of the raw wave files may leave you wondering what happened to some of the tracks you heard in the project.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Double-edged sword

Stryder, thanks for your well-informed reply. You bring up a good point. There is a bit of a double-edged sword in there also, though...

The use of tracks exported as single WAVs does indeed provide a quick-and-easy zero-time reference point. This is especially imnportant in a program such as GT2 which does not support common EDL (Edit Decision List) file formats such as CMX or Sony. Without such transportable program edit information, re-assembling assorted clips into an edit timeline in a different edit environment is little more than an error-prone process of re-inventing a wheel.

*However*, this begs the a point directly relevant to my situation. I have been asked to re-mix and re-master recordings my friend has recorded in GT2. In this case what is actually most important to me are the recordings themself. What he may or may not have already done in the way of editing, mixing or other processing in the GT timeline is important perhaps only as a reference to what we like or do not like in what he alread did. But I have to be prepared to possibly - and even probably - discard entire parts or even entire tracks of his GT mix. In short, I need to have access to the source recordings if I want the flexibility of a clean canvas to work from.

By exporting his existing timelines to new WAV files, I am making the assumption that I want to start where he left off; i.e. I don't want to re-mix so much as continue the current mix. That is an assumption that I'd rather not make.

G.

 

[Strryder]

Glen,

I'm not sure if there is a way to get back to "all" of a Guitar Tracks project's original wave files, due to the program's number of effects limitations (8 real-time effects at once in Guitar Tracks 2, and 16 in GTPro2 I think), there is a strong possibility that your friend has processed some effects/edits onto some tracks, if he did, it is a destructive process at least when applying effects and those wave files will have been overwritten.

I don't think either of those programs had the slip editing that Sonar 2 had, so pulling clips out to seperate tracks and "slipping" them back out to full won't be possible.

Is there a "Project Audio Files" option in the file menu? Sonar 2 has this, and if so it should tell you the full name of all wave files currently used by the session EDL.

On the export consolidation issue, removing all un-needed clip automation and real-time effects, as well as normalizing all virtual console faders to "0", and turning off all aux send/return channels will get you the tracks as they exsist now as unprocessed as possible, this still may end up being the only option, even if not an ideal one.

Are you by any chance using SAWStudio? I wasn't aware of the term "EDL" until I started using SS about one and a half years ago.

 

[dachay2tnr]

By exporting his existing timelines to new WAV files, I am making the assumption that I want to start where he left off; i.e. I don't want to re-mix so much as continue the current mix.
G.

That should not be a problem IF all the effects and edits were done non-destructively (or even better, if a backup of the file was made prior to any edits).

Generally Sonar has been designed these days so that everything can be done non-destructively. This, of course, allows you to turn off or remove anything that is effecting the original source wave files.

I'm not that familiar with Guitar Tracks, so I don't know how flexible it is with destructive vs non-destructive edits, nor do I know how your friend is using it. So I understand where you might be coming from.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

An Imperfect World

Yes, I agree that I will have to work from a somewhat comprimised position in this project, no matter which way I slice it. Such is the nature of this beast.

Yes, I can "return" each track to close to original condition by turning off effects, removing pan and volume envelopes, etc. before performing the exports. This still (I would think) fall a little bit short in that it doesn't account for imbedded overdubs, alternate takes or hard-rendered non-realtime effects. Short of tracking down and IDing the original sources, I'll just have to work with what he gives me in the timeline. I'll just have to make the calls "as I sees dem" as to when or where it may be worth tracking down the origial recordings vs. simply accepting what he has put in his timelines as "good enough" and going from there.

As to the idea of rendered, non-realtime effects "writing over" the originals, I may not be entirely correct here (my knowledge is based solely on one short session spent exploring and learning GT2 for the first time), but it appears that in at least *some* situations, the original WAV file is not written over, but rather a second, rendered file is created and used in place of the original. In one expiriment where I was watching the creation of files in the Data directory for GT2, I made a sample recording and watched the WAV file appear in the directory (with the RC prefix in the filename). I then performed a normalization (just as a test) on that clip and saw a *second* WAV file appear (with the MX prefix). The original WAV file did not disappear, it just apparently was no longer being used in the timeline.

This rendering to a new file would make sense, if that is how GT2 does things for non-RT effects. It would keep to the paradigm of non-destructive editing and - theoretically at least - keep a path open to undo-ing the rendered effect and being able to return to the original.

As to the option for being able to save project files under a user-described name or filepath, that appears to be something that Cakewalk did not fully implement until sometime after GT2. As far as I can tell, GT2 allows such naming and saving for the project "work file" and "bundle file", but no such provision exists for the "data files" (the actual WAV files)...with the exception of the option that you guys kindly led me to of mixing down/exporting timeline tracks to newly rendered WAV files.

And no, I have not had the opportunity to work with SAW yet. I current do most of my work with Sonic Foundry (now Sony) Vegas and Sound Forge and with Cool Edit Pro (now Adobe Audition.) Previous to that I also used Cubase VST regularly, though it has been a while now since I worked in a Cubase environment. I have also had some limited previous experience with ProTools.

My reference to EDLs is an old force of habit of mine I used to work for D-Vision Systems and Discreet Logic as part of the engineering team that designed what was at the time the first broadcast-quality non-linear video editor for the Windows platform. It was, in effect, meant to be to WindowsNT what the Avid system was to the Mac platform. So my history includes just as much editing and engineering in video as it does in audio. In broadcast video editing at the time (over 5 yeas ago now), it was just as - if not more - important to be able to use your video NLE system to generate standard-format EDLs (typically Sony or CMX format) that you could take to a pro editing bay with our original tapes as it was to print an edited program directly from the NLE. It got to the point whereI was dreaming the term "EDL" in my sleep, and I have - for better or worse - come to use the term "EDL" as a generic term for any time-based edit list data file.

Technically, you could call the project "Work file" in GT2 it's own proprietary format EDL file. Accordingly, in Sound Forge, the ".sfk" files that it generates for each WAV you edit are it's own version of an EDL file. Most other non-linear (i.e. graphic timeline) editors use some type of EDL file as well. Many of the better editors include the options to export to common "Rosetta Stone" EDL formats such as Sony and CMX, allowing you to move editing projects and source files (or tapes, for those of us old enough to remember ) from studio to studio without worry of what type of editing gear or software they used.

So please excuse this humble one for perhaps over- or maybe even mis-using the term "EDL" as a generic term. It is an old force of habit that this old dog finds hard to break

G.