dBVU vs. dBFS

RideTheCrash

RideTheCrash

Member
This is in regards to the "recording volume" thread. I did a test today. I stuck a mic in front of a fairly constant signal and watched where it peaked. On my board's meters, I set it to peak at just about 0dB.

On my card's software (Delta 1010lt), which has meters on it, it peaked around -18 (dBFS?), and after it recorded in CEP, it peaked around -18 as well. So this sounds about right?

My stuff is in another room and it's usually just me, so I usually just turn some stuff up and go at it. I guess it's funny seeing such a small waveform, makes me question "was this recorded at a good volume?". It's all psychological.
 
Yes that sounds about right.
If you do any "boosting" with your board, you'll be going into the headroom where more noise and non-linearities exists.

Trust your ears always, but also trust decades of design and engineering.

Once you add some compression to something that was tracked in the headroom of your console you'll not have as much room to play as you would have if it were tracked at 0dBvu on your board, -18dBfs on your DAW.

This is where it is advantageous to use 24/32-bit recording. Even at -18db in the digital realm, you're still using more than 16-bits. Then once you are in the digital domain, you can change levels without any addition on noise from running into headroom. As digital technically has NO headroom, unless we give it to ourselves by increasing bit depth (24 or 32) and tracking at a lower dB value. In essency, giving yourseld 18dB noise-free digital headroom. ;)
 
Yes, 0dbVU = about -18dbFS

There is probably a zoom control that makes the waveforms look bigger.
 
Yeah, there are zoom controls, I'll play around with 'em maybe.

Thanks guys.

I record everything dry through my board, no compressors or any of that. Funny how there is nothing past 0dB in digital. My meters on my board go all the way up to +18, and finally "clip".
 
RideTheCrash said:
Yeah, there are zoom controls, I'll play around with 'em maybe.

Thanks guys.

I record everything dry through my board, no compressors or any of that. Funny how there is nothing past 0dB in digital. My meters on my board go all the way up to +18, and finally "clip".
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Do you see why that makes sense? That means that your board has 18db of headroom, so you give yourself 18db of headroom in the digital world. That is the way it was designed.
0dbVU is line level. -18dbFS is line level
 
And one of the best ways to make your tracks sound "small" is to record them too "big" - Using the 0dBVU = around -18dBFS rule of thumb while tracking is one of the best things you'll ever do for your sound.

As that's the way it was all designed to work. "Getting the levels hot without clipping" is NOT.
 
Massive Master said:
And one of the best ways to make your tracks sound "small" is to record them too "big" - Using the 0dBVU = around -18dBFS rule of thumb while tracking is one of the best things you'll ever do for your sound.

As that's the way it was all designed to work. "Getting the levels hot without clipping" is NOT.
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I have you and Farview to thank for revolutionalizing the way I track.
And opening my eyes to what I should have already thought of.
Though it took me a while before I "got it". LOL
Again, Thanks guys!
 
Okay, another question. This might just be related to me somehow losing decibels from how my stuff is setup, but:

I have a simple shaker track. It peaks around -12dBFS to -18dBFS (max), in Cool Edit. My Delta software meters tell me it peaks around -12dBFS, which is about right. If I send that track out to my board, the signal comes up at -24dBVU.

Shouldn't it be up higher? Or am I looking at this wrong?
 
You aren't doing anything wrong. The meters on you mixer are much slower than the ones on the computer. The computer meters measure peak signal, the meters on your board measure average signal. A shaker doesn't have any sustain, just a bunch of transients, the meters on your board are too slow to catch them. Everything is fine.
 
Try recording triangle some time - You'll get clips that your PEAK meters don't even warn you of.

And your VU meters won't even budge.
 
Triangle, cowbell, tambourine -

You can record them all from a block away and they sound like they're right in your ear.
 
RideTheCrash said:
I have a tambourine and a mounted cowbell. I should give 'em a go.
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When you set the levels on these and most percussion, you need to set the levels in the software and be done with it.
 
I been hearing about the dBVU, but how do you record on that, you know I mean? Could somebody just clear that up for me?
 
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