A1A2
New member
that's actually a very good point. I have always kept that in mind when painting, now I will remember to think that way when mixing 
C
chessrock
Banned
The Making of a David Gilmour Vocal Track.
Okay, Chessrock is bored, and class is now officially in session:
Just a few ideas and random thoughts to start out with:
* Although Gilmour is often regarded as having a sweeter-sounding voice than Roger Waters, it is pretty well-known that both were subject to some generous studio processing.
Would David Gilmour really sound like Gilmour if he were to sing in to a 57 patched dry to my sound card?
Don't be silly.
Would "Welcome to the Machine" sound like "Welcome to the Machine" through a $100 1980 Casio Keyboard?
I think people sometimes give too much credit to legends.
* If you were to listen to Gilmour's voice in it's natural state, I think you'd be surprized at how "dull and bassy" it is compared to the sizzling, hypnotic quality he achieves (or should I say Bob Ezrin / Alan Parsons achieved) on record.
I've had the pleasure of hearing him live, and listened to enough bootlegs to surmize that his voice is almost "too full" in it's unaffected state.
Time out: Pull out Delicate Sound of Thunder, and listen to "Dogs of War" for an example of what I am talking about (It's almost like he's trying to be James Earl Jones!),
Now . . . pull out Momentary Lapse of Reason, and listen to the same song. You'll notice his voice is much less processed on the live version. A/b-ing his raw voice with his processed voice, you'll notice a lot of hyped frequencies/harmonics in the higher ranges . . . but it's all very smooth and warm (warm as opposed to sharp/crisp).
This leads me to think either a tube condenser or a dynamic would make a good "Gilmour mic". Harvey can get a similar warm high-end with his SM-7 (a dynamic) with high-end switch in the up position. But my guess would be a tube condenser. My reasoning is that the SM-7 is very full-sounding (bassy), and Gilmour already has enough "full."
We'll save the sm-7 for the "How to sound like Barry White" thread.
Okay, so a tube condenser is what we've settled on. Agreed? I would think the Rode NTK would be an excellent mic choice for mister Gilmour.
So now I'm sticking an NTK in David Gilmour's face. Next up in the signal chain, I'm going to want to chop a lot of the low end right off. Just chop it. This will be after we pull out Harvey's RNC. Only a smooth, transparent comp will do.
Next, we're going to boost some mids just a hair untill I hear a more "compact" version of his actual voice. Is it starting to sound like Dave yet? Good. Now lets boost a little of the 12Khz range so we can add some air.
Hmmm. . . come to think of it, let's really air the piss out of this track. That's what I think of when I hear Mr. Gilmour.
Gilmour = air.
I hope we're recording all of this to tape, aren't we? Good. Because now, we're going to speed his vocal track up just a hair (Actually, we'll achieve this by slowing down the music tracks in his headphones a hair while recording, and then we'll speed it all back up to normal when we mix down). This will also add youth and tame some of the "fullness" we talked about (remember Dogs of War?)
And no, we're not trying to do any funky chipmunks thing, here.
Now, it's TIME TO PULL OUT THE CHORUS AND FLANGERS. No Gilmour lyric can possibly be complete without a little flange/chorus. Depending on your brand and model, it may already come with a "Gilmour" preset. If not, then look for "Angelic." Provided you find the Angelic (or similar) setting on your chorus/flange, keep experimenting with it untill you find a nice, smooth, mild blend.
Keep auditioning different chorus settings while singing " I - I - have become . . . comfortably numb" into the NTK untill you find the right setting. Keep doing this.
No, really, keep doing this. I love that song.
Keep a dry track around and try blending untill your vocal track is sufficiently "Gilmour-esque."
If all of this fails, then just smoke a lot of hash and listen to Animals. It'll make you feel better.
Let me know how it goes.
Okay, Chessrock is bored, and class is now officially in session:
Just a few ideas and random thoughts to start out with:
* Although Gilmour is often regarded as having a sweeter-sounding voice than Roger Waters, it is pretty well-known that both were subject to some generous studio processing.
Would David Gilmour really sound like Gilmour if he were to sing in to a 57 patched dry to my sound card?
Don't be silly.
Would "Welcome to the Machine" sound like "Welcome to the Machine" through a $100 1980 Casio Keyboard?
I think people sometimes give too much credit to legends.
* If you were to listen to Gilmour's voice in it's natural state, I think you'd be surprized at how "dull and bassy" it is compared to the sizzling, hypnotic quality he achieves (or should I say Bob Ezrin / Alan Parsons achieved) on record.
I've had the pleasure of hearing him live, and listened to enough bootlegs to surmize that his voice is almost "too full" in it's unaffected state.
Time out: Pull out Delicate Sound of Thunder, and listen to "Dogs of War" for an example of what I am talking about (It's almost like he's trying to be James Earl Jones!),
Now . . . pull out Momentary Lapse of Reason, and listen to the same song. You'll notice his voice is much less processed on the live version. A/b-ing his raw voice with his processed voice, you'll notice a lot of hyped frequencies/harmonics in the higher ranges . . . but it's all very smooth and warm (warm as opposed to sharp/crisp).
This leads me to think either a tube condenser or a dynamic would make a good "Gilmour mic". Harvey can get a similar warm high-end with his SM-7 (a dynamic) with high-end switch in the up position. But my guess would be a tube condenser. My reasoning is that the SM-7 is very full-sounding (bassy), and Gilmour already has enough "full."
We'll save the sm-7 for the "How to sound like Barry White" thread.
Okay, so a tube condenser is what we've settled on. Agreed? I would think the Rode NTK would be an excellent mic choice for mister Gilmour.
So now I'm sticking an NTK in David Gilmour's face. Next up in the signal chain, I'm going to want to chop a lot of the low end right off. Just chop it. This will be after we pull out Harvey's RNC. Only a smooth, transparent comp will do.
Next, we're going to boost some mids just a hair untill I hear a more "compact" version of his actual voice. Is it starting to sound like Dave yet? Good. Now lets boost a little of the 12Khz range so we can add some air.
Hmmm. . . come to think of it, let's really air the piss out of this track. That's what I think of when I hear Mr. Gilmour.
Gilmour = air.
I hope we're recording all of this to tape, aren't we? Good. Because now, we're going to speed his vocal track up just a hair (Actually, we'll achieve this by slowing down the music tracks in his headphones a hair while recording, and then we'll speed it all back up to normal when we mix down). This will also add youth and tame some of the "fullness" we talked about (remember Dogs of War?)
And no, we're not trying to do any funky chipmunks thing, here.
Now, it's TIME TO PULL OUT THE CHORUS AND FLANGERS. No Gilmour lyric can possibly be complete without a little flange/chorus. Depending on your brand and model, it may already come with a "Gilmour" preset. If not, then look for "Angelic." Provided you find the Angelic (or similar) setting on your chorus/flange, keep experimenting with it untill you find a nice, smooth, mild blend.
Keep auditioning different chorus settings while singing " I - I - have become . . . comfortably numb" into the NTK untill you find the right setting. Keep doing this.
No, really, keep doing this. I love that song.
Keep a dry track around and try blending untill your vocal track is sufficiently "Gilmour-esque."
If all of this fails, then just smoke a lot of hash and listen to Animals. It'll make you feel better.
Let me know how it goes.
heylow
New member
GREAT post Chess!!!
.....Informative and humourous....probably a bit closer to what I wanted to say above. I know Gilmour sounds like Gilmour but Gilmour also sounds like "air" and much processing and I believed that was the part A1A2 was asking about....just hate to see a dude grilled and I'm glad this turned into a much nicer thread...
....hmmm....
...Come to think of it maybe it was the presence or Harvey that turned it around
We all seem to be on our better behaviours when he's around
heylow
Rock Jedi/Indie Snob
www.heylowsoundsystem.net
.....Informative and humourous....probably a bit closer to what I wanted to say above. I know Gilmour sounds like Gilmour but Gilmour also sounds like "air" and much processing and I believed that was the part A1A2 was asking about....just hate to see a dude grilled and I'm glad this turned into a much nicer thread...
....hmmm....
...Come to think of it maybe it was the presence or Harvey that turned it around
We all seem to be on our better behaviours when he's around heylow
Rock Jedi/Indie Snob
www.heylowsoundsystem.net
jimistone
long standing member
wow harvey.....i would give my left nut to have heard jimi live, much less actually have met him. There is no way a recording could capture the power and pucnh he must have had. I know this is off subject but.....i get SO damn sick and tired of the new generation of guitarists saying hendrix sucked and was out of tune ect..ect..He paved the way for modern electric guitar, and like you say, NOBODY has ever had that sound....never will in the future either. Jimi's rythem guitar playing was amazing...chordal melodies to die for. Nobody plays rythem guitar like that nowdays....its a lost art. In my humble opinion someone that says hendrix sucked is showing thier ignorance.
A1A2
New member
CHessROck!! You are my man
Obviously, you knw the Floyd very well, wow, I was impressed. I knew that they slowed down some tracks for Waters cuz he couldn't sing uo to a couple notes in some songs, but, I never knew that they did the same for David to achieve the "yougth" sound.
Now, the NTK is a litte above what I planned to spend on a mic, what about a C1 or C3? I know they are no tube mics compare to NTK, but I find the word "warm" under all of their descriptions (i know this sounds silly, but, I am a newb as it says under my loggin name)
About his voice being to full/dull, I know what you mean as I listen to "High Hopes". His voice gets real bassy in both the studio and live(Pulse) version. Anyways, I did have some trouble when I sang thru a 57 cuz I have a rather dull voice. So, thanks for the advice on this.
I didn't even think of chours or flanger when I hear Gilmour's singing. You must have listened to PF long enough to notice all these things. I will try that.
At last, please get back to me on the choice on a C1 or C3 vs NTK. If the NTK will really get me much closer to what I want, I can take that into consideration. And, would it make a big difference if I was using DMP3 or Joemeek vcq3 as the mic pre? If so, which one would you recommend?
ps. My RNC is arriving this Friday, yeah!
Thanks, ChessRock, I will get my MP3 up soon, and I will let you guys know.
Obviously, you knw the Floyd very well, wow, I was impressed. I knew that they slowed down some tracks for Waters cuz he couldn't sing uo to a couple notes in some songs, but, I never knew that they did the same for David to achieve the "yougth" sound.
Now, the NTK is a litte above what I planned to spend on a mic, what about a C1 or C3? I know they are no tube mics compare to NTK, but I find the word "warm" under all of their descriptions (i know this sounds silly, but, I am a newb as it says under my loggin name)
About his voice being to full/dull, I know what you mean as I listen to "High Hopes". His voice gets real bassy in both the studio and live(Pulse) version. Anyways, I did have some trouble when I sang thru a 57 cuz I have a rather dull voice. So, thanks for the advice on this.
I didn't even think of chours or flanger when I hear Gilmour's singing. You must have listened to PF long enough to notice all these things. I will try that.
At last, please get back to me on the choice on a C1 or C3 vs NTK. If the NTK will really get me much closer to what I want, I can take that into consideration. And, would it make a big difference if I was using DMP3 or Joemeek vcq3 as the mic pre? If so, which one would you recommend?
ps. My RNC is arriving this Friday, yeah!
Thanks, ChessRock, I will get my MP3 up soon, and I will let you guys know.
A1A2
New member
my MP3
ok, guys, just so you know, I have just put up my MP3's on nowhereradio.com
I started another thread in the MP3 Clinic under the title "Cheap Production" Please check it out
Of course there is no vocal in my MP3's cuz I haven't bought the mic yet
ok, guys, just so you know, I have just put up my MP3's on nowhereradio.com
I started another thread in the MP3 Clinic under the title "Cheap Production" Please check it out
Of course there is no vocal in my MP3's cuz I haven't bought the mic yet
C
chessrock
Banned
Re: VCS-3?
---------------------
I don't think they felt too good about letting Nick Mason even touch the drums! LOL
cordura21 said:BTW, what is a VCS3, or something like that, that they played on The Dark Side Of The Moon?
I guess it's a synth, but I wander why they put it so explicitly.
Anyways, it must be a music instrument for sure, since they didn't let the drummer use it!
---------------------
I don't think they felt too good about letting Nick Mason even touch the drums! LOL
C
chessrock
Banned
Re: VCS-3?
---------------------
I don't think they felt too good about letting Nick Mason even touch the drums! LOL
Come to think of it, I believe Roger Waters actually played it on "On the Run." Some sort of a weird synth thing.
A1A2, I hope you didn't take me too seriously, as the Gilmour post was really just Chessrock being bored and having fun with a Floyd-related post. I'm not a pro audio expert, but I am a Floyd expert! Since you're fairly new to all of this, then I wouldn't go breaking the bank on anything just yet. A C1 is a great vocal mic and it's cheap, so I don't think you could go wrong there. Ditto for the RNC.
If you're really serious about all of this, and have a little money to spend, then keep in mind you're going to need a preamp to go with it. Here's where it gets tricky. If you get a warm-sounding mic like an NTK, then you might save yourself some money by getting a clean, uncolored preamp like a midiman.
Or you could buy a good, less expensive mic like a c1, and spend a little more money on a warmer-sounding tube preamp. I have heard the Digitech VTP-1 has got a "glossy" warmth to it as opposed to "full," and you can probably find one used on ebay for about $300. My recommendation: NTK through a midman, or a C1 through a vtp-1. For now.
Hope that helps.
cordura21 said:BTW, what is a VCS3, or something like that, that they played on The Dark Side Of The Moon?
I guess it's a synth, but I wander why they put it so explicitly.
Anyways, it must be a music instrument for sure, since they didn't let the drummer use it!
---------------------
I don't think they felt too good about letting Nick Mason even touch the drums! LOL
Come to think of it, I believe Roger Waters actually played it on "On the Run." Some sort of a weird synth thing.
A1A2, I hope you didn't take me too seriously, as the Gilmour post was really just Chessrock being bored and having fun with a Floyd-related post. I'm not a pro audio expert, but I am a Floyd expert! Since you're fairly new to all of this, then I wouldn't go breaking the bank on anything just yet. A C1 is a great vocal mic and it's cheap, so I don't think you could go wrong there. Ditto for the RNC.
If you're really serious about all of this, and have a little money to spend, then keep in mind you're going to need a preamp to go with it. Here's where it gets tricky. If you get a warm-sounding mic like an NTK, then you might save yourself some money by getting a clean, uncolored preamp like a midiman.
Or you could buy a good, less expensive mic like a c1, and spend a little more money on a warmer-sounding tube preamp. I have heard the Digitech VTP-1 has got a "glossy" warmth to it as opposed to "full," and you can probably find one used on ebay for about $300. My recommendation: NTK through a midman, or a C1 through a vtp-1. For now.
Hope that helps.
