DAV Preamp samples.

  • Thread starter Thread starter BigRay
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Do you have anything smaller than 116 meg? Thats a fairly big download.
How would you say they compare to the Wunder PA4 ?(which, in my opinion, kicks ass). That is, if youve used one before.
 
I dont have anything smaller, and I dont use MP3s.

Ive never heard the Wunder stuff, but I have used and or/owned the GML, Gordon, DACS, Millennia, Grace, Pendulum, and Hamptone.

The DAV is the best "clean" pre in the world, in my opinion.

Pendulum and Hamptone get my award for favorite "character" pres..
 
Hey thanks Ray! As you know, I've been considering this and hopefully with help me decide. I'll give it a listen as soon as I get home tonight.

Rory
 
How am I supposed to evaluate these without anything to compare them to?

I mean it's cool that you can post a sample and say "I recorded this using X pre," ... but what is that supposed to tell anyone?

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To me, its helpful to be able to hear what something is capable of. Sure, it will probably sound slightly different at my place compared to Ray's, but if it sounds good there, chances are it will sound good at my place. If it sounds like ass there, it might sound like ass here. Its also inspiring I think to be able to hear something you're interested in getting and hear how it can sound. I remember creating a thread a while back about a mic that I made from radioshack parts and posted a clip of it. I'm damn sure that if I made another one it would sound different, but lots of people got excited and went out and made their own. I appreciate the time Ray put into posting his clip, even if theres nothing to compare it to other than other records I like. Even if we had sound samples that were the same signal chain minus preamps there'd still be difference in a different room with a different person. Agree or disagree with me, its my opinion and I appreciate the clip.

As an afterthought, why do you have to compare it to something at all? Just curious.

Rory
 
The only thing I'm puzzled with is how you can call it a "preamp sample."

It's not a preamp sample. It's a ray sample. It's a ray's room sample. It's a ray's converter sample. It's a Schoeps /Geoffel sample. It's a sample of Ray's guitar, Ray's amp, Ray's pickups and the strings he uses (sorry, I didn't hear what he actually played -- the files wouldn't even open).

It's also a Ray's audio eningeering skills sample. It's a "whatever cables Ray is using" sample.

I'm just puzzled as to how I'm supposed to listen to someone's sample and say; "wow, listen to that mic pre." What about a random sample is going to give me any clue at all as to what the mic pre, specifically, is bringing to the table, and what contributions that mic pre made to the sound quality of the sample ... versus what it could have sounded like with a Mackie or something?

Does that mean I can pop in a comercial recording made on an SSL console from the last 5 years and call it an "SSL sample?" I'm sorry, but I'm just lost on this one. You can't call it a "mic pre sample" ... unless maybe you've got some sort of a base to compare it against. And even that's kind of iffy.

Knowing that Ray can get a good sound using a particular piece of equipment is nice ... but it tells us nothing other than Ray was able to get a good sound using said piece of equipment. What if Ray were to give us a sample of the same thing, and it sounded absolutely identical, only he used a Behringer on it? What would that tell us?

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chessrock said:
How am I supposed to evaluate these without anything to compare them to?

I mean it's cool that you can post a sample and say "I recorded this using X pre," ... but what is that supposed to tell anyone?

.
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well, I tell you one thing. Your posts tell me that you whine a whole damn lot.
but wow....bitching about samples???What possible HARM could come from posting them??Obviously it isnt the definitive answer,(and any dumbass will know that!) but what does it hurt?? I get tired of people suggesting things and not putting up samples of their work, so I figure if I am going to suggest something, I better damn well put my money where my mouth is.What is better??A million swinging dicks reccomending this or that, with nobody ever posting anything, or someone suggesting an item and following with samples??!! for the DAV it isnt possible to check them out before buying them, so you can bet your ass it helps some people to at least get an inkling of what the preamp may sound like.. I dont give a rats ass if you listen or not,nor whether it helps you or not, but if you dont have anything valuable to contribute to this particular thread ,take your whining bullshit elsewhere, and kindly stfu. Thanks. ;)

For those that WANT to listen to these samples, or perhaps want full length CDs of various concerts recorded with these preamps, shoot me a PM, and I will get you some out. It isnt "the listening sessions" or "my space" but samples are better than talk, in my world.

and for Mrs. Chessrock

http://www.target-music.ch/studio/sounds.htm
 
Chess, if it doesnt help you, fine! take a hike. If it is lost on you, if it doesnt fit in with your grand philosophy of how to be an engineer, cool! but for those that like hearing gear, it is a good thing. I would rather hear samples of gear all day than hear your whining, caustic bullshit. I was specifically asked to post a sample via PM, and I did. You dont have to understand, I didnt post it for you, and It makes ZERO difference whether or not you approve or comprehend the reasoning. Thats just the way it is. If someone asks me to post more samples I will do just that. Once again, if you have nothing to contribute, if you have made your point(and such a strong one it was! :rolleyes: ) then kindly go whine in another thread.





chessrock said:
The only thing I'm puzzled with is how you can call it a "preamp sample."

It's not a preamp sample. It's a ray sample. It's a ray's room sample. It's a ray's converter sample. It's a Schoeps /Geoffel sample. It's a sample of Ray's guitar, Ray's amp, Ray's pickups and the strings he uses (sorry, I didn't hear what he actually played -- the files wouldn't even open).

It's also a Ray's audio eningeering skills sample. It's a "whatever cables Ray is using" sample.

I'm just puzzled as to how I'm supposed to listen to someone's sample and say; "wow, listen to that mic pre." What about a random sample is going to give me any clue at all as to what the mic pre, specifically, is bringing to the table, and what contributions that mic pre made to the sound quality of the sample ... versus what it could have sounded like with a Mackie or something?

Does that mean I can pop in a comercial recording made on an SSL console from the last 5 years and call it an "SSL sample?" I'm sorry, but I'm just lost on this one. You can't call it a "mic pre sample" ... unless maybe you've got some sort of a base to compare it against. And even that's kind of iffy.

Knowing that Ray can get a good sound using a particular piece of equipment is nice ... but it tells us nothing other than Ray was able to get a good sound using said piece of equipment. What if Ray were to give us a sample of the same thing, and it sounded absolutely identical, only he used a Behringer on it? What would that tell us?

.
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If that were the case, then why should ANYONE post ANY samples EVER??fuck the listening sessions! you have to understand one thing, Chess. In spite of how much sense your ideas and ramblings make to you, dont expect anyone to see things the way you see them. Dont expect anyone to take heed and say "he is right, damnit, why did I listen to those samples!". Samples of a particular piece of gear NEVER hurt anything. Like I said, any body with half a brain knows not to purchase gear based on a few samples alone, but I have never heard ANYONE bitch about audio clips but you. Your incessant shooting off at the mouth...does that help at all?? we all know you like to stand on the soapbox and try to force your ideas of how things should be on the folks here, but really..who listens and who cares but you?? Offer help of your own, contribute something other than the verbal equivalent of compost to the threads here, try teaching the up and comers a thing or two WITHOUT being a prick. I doubt anyone pays attention to what you say, Chess , because every time you type something, it is the same negative bullshit. why dont you just start a new thread, and tell people what you think. That way the people who want to read your posts will click on them and the ones who dont will avoid them. I doubt people came to this thread to hear you shoot off at the mouth, yet again.






chessrock said:
The only thing I'm puzzled with is how you can call it a "preamp sample."

It's not a preamp sample. It's a ray sample. It's a ray's room sample. It's a ray's converter sample. It's a Schoeps /Geoffel sample. It's a sample of Ray's guitar, Ray's amp, Ray's pickups and the strings he uses (sorry, I didn't hear what he actually played -- the files wouldn't even open).

It's also a Ray's audio eningeering skills sample. It's a "whatever cables Ray is using" sample.

I'm just puzzled as to how I'm supposed to listen to someone's sample and say; "wow, listen to that mic pre." What about a random sample is going to give me any clue at all as to what the mic pre, specifically, is bringing to the table, and what contributions that mic pre made to the sound quality of the sample ... versus what it could have sounded like with a Mackie or something?

Does that mean I can pop in a comercial recording made on an SSL console from the last 5 years and call it an "SSL sample?" I'm sorry, but I'm just lost on this one. You can't call it a "mic pre sample" ... unless maybe you've got some sort of a base to compare it against. And even that's kind of iffy.

Knowing that Ray can get a good sound using a particular piece of equipment is nice ... but it tells us nothing other than Ray was able to get a good sound using said piece of equipment. What if Ray were to give us a sample of the same thing, and it sounded absolutely identical, only he used a Behringer on it? What would that tell us?

.
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I do like to listen to actual audio samples, and always appreciate it when someone goes to the trouble of posting them. Yes, of course there are many variables, but as long as the gear list is described clearly and completey it is possible to take those variables into account.

The one major reason I purchased a BG-1 is that BigRay posted some samples and I liked the way they sounded. I took his samples and A/B'ed them with some recordings that I had made using top end gear. I liked what I heard of the BG-1 and bought one.

After using it myself, I find the tonal signature of the BG-1 similar to what I heard on BigRay's examples. So I do think audio examples are useful, even if they aren't in "shootout" format.

But I also agree that there are many variables involved, which could lead to a "your results may vary" type situation.
 
BigRay said:
for the DAV it isnt possible to check them out before buying them, so you can bet your ass it helps some people to at least get an inkling of what the preamp may sound like..
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Yea, but the problem I have with it is that it really doesn't give even the slightest inkling as to what the "mic pre" sounds like. Unless maybe you've got some basis of comparison. In that instance, you could hear sample B and critially listen for what makes it different from sample A ... you might be able to isolate those differences as being attributable to the mic pre. Provided, of course, all other things were equal.

Without a basis, then I'm afraid you're just another swinging dick. :D

Maybe you find my posts to be negative, but then again, it's not for you Ray. I say what I say for the benefit of the naive, less experienced guy reading this thread who thinks he can listen to your samples and believe the mic pre must be why the sample sounds so good :D ... with no idea how many other factors go in to it all, and how "next-to-impossible" it is to evaluate a mic pre from a sample on the net.

Besides, Ray, you're about the last guy I would trust on this kind of subject. I just did an advanced search to figure out how many times you've mentioned the DAV in your posts, and it was pretty staggering ...

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/search.php?searchid=857977


Jesus, Ray. That's about 3 fucking pages worth ... or about 16% of your total post count. And that's not even counting Gearslutz or all of the other forums you frequent, which often have an even higher percentage of DAV-related threads by none other than out buddy, Big Ray, under another similar username. Do you ever talk about anything else other than that goddamn preamp ? Seriously, Ray, forgive me for being suspicious of your intentions, but I don't know what other conclusion to make out of this. If you're not buddy/buddies with the DAV guys, then I'm even more concerned, because I don't think it's very healthy to be that fixated on one piece of gear.

I swear to God if I were to start a thread asking what kind of insurance I should get for my car, you would probably respond with "I don't know about the insurance thing, but the DAV preamp is one of the best preamps out there, big and full, rich, bla bla bla bla."

Keep talkin' shit about me, you jackass.

.
 
chessrock said:
Yea, but the problem I have with it is that it really doesn't give even the slightest inkling as to what the "mic pre" sounds like.
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Maybe you find my posts to be negative, but then again, it's not for you Ray. I say what I say for the benefit of the naive, less experienced guy reading this thread who thinks he can listen to your samples and believe the mic pre must be why the sample sounds so good :D ... with no idea how many other factors go in to it all, and how "next-to-impossible" it is to evaluate a mic pre from a sample on the net.
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I dont think your posts help anyone but you, Chess. I think you talk just to hear yourself talk, honestly.

Besides, Ray, you're about the last guy I would trust on this kind of subject. I just did an advanced search to figure out how many times you've mentioned the DAV in your posts, and it was pretty staggering ...
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Chess, maybe you missed the part where I mentioned that your reaction to me or what you think of my posts has no bearing on what I do. I just dont care. No, I dont work for the company, and Mick, though I talk to him on occasion, isnt a relative or a close friend. I simply believe passionately in the product, and I express it. The odd thing is that every single person that has bought them loves them. I found out about them from another fanatic of the company. I am very glad I did. Saved me a lot of money that I wouldve dropped on way more expensive solutions...


Jesus, Ray. That's about 3 fucking pages worth ... or about 16% of your total post count. And that's not even counting Gearslutz or all of the other forums you frequent, which often have an even higher percentage of DAV-related threads. Do you ever talk about anything else other than that goddamn preamp ? Seriously, Ray, forgive me for being suspicious of your intentions, but I don't know what other conclusion to make out of this. If you're not buddy/buddies with the DAV guys, then I'm even more concerned, because I don't think it's very healthy to be that fixated on one piece of gear.
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The last time I checked , I called the shots on what I do or do not post.
It will probably be a lot higher before it is all said and done. Chess, once again, I dont care about what you do or what you suspect.It concerns me not whether or not you are interested in DAV.. If you dissapeared from the face of the earth tommorow and never posted here again, I probably wouldnt notice, truth be told. I posted the samples because someone asked me to. If that offends your sensibilities, if that raises red flags, then so be it. The worldll keep turning, and I will keep doing my thing. Ive got a good size clientele, a great gear list, my own studio , and a beautiful family. I make damn good money and have a lot of fun recording(and making) music.That is all that concerns me... When you become a partner in my outfit or start paying my bills then I may feel a bit compelled to listen to your ideas. Until such time, dont hold your breath. if you have anything further to say, do so via PM. Dont continue to clog up the thread(which was simply to post samples, not be a medium for your bullshit).



Once again, if anyone wants more thorough samples(or entire concerts) feel free to PM me and I will make it happen either via email , or postal mail.

-teddy
 
Woah.. can't we all just be friends? :D

I see no harm in the samples or interest one has in the preamp. From what I've read about the preamp, from many peeps other than BigRay, it is great.

But for me, since I am clueless about gefell mic and that converter BigRay uses, I guess it would be hard for me to discern which is the preamp part of the sample. But I still enjoy it anyways.

James
 
chipwits said:
...since I am clueless about gefell mic and that converter BigRay uses, I guess it would be hard for me to discern which is the preamp part of the sample.
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Exactly. But don't say that too loud, or Big Ray will get his panties in a wad. :D Oh, yea, I forgot. He doesn't care what people think.

Anyone notice how Big Ray says he's not friends with the guys at the company, then he drops his buddy there's name ... but just his first name. :D "Yea, me and 'ol Micky-boy. I don't know the guy from Adam, but I sure do like his product. "

.
 
Well, the thing about that is that you order DAV products direct from the company. So the first person you deal with is Mick. If you own a DAV product you know Mick to a certain extent, it's just how it works. So it's not necessarily a buddy buddy thing to mention his name.
 
Of course Ray can post whatever he wants, in whatever fashion he desires.

I'm not familiar with the DAV preamps, so I would be very interested in hearing what they sound like. For instance, you mention a number of very highly regarded preamps and say that for a clean sound, the DAV beats them all - even the Gordon, which is regarded by some as the holy grail of preamps.

That's an intriguing claim, and certainly would pique my interest in the DAV. But here's where I think that Chessrock has a point. What would help me, and perhaps others, is if you posted two clips using the exact same recording chain, except one clip swapped the DAV preamp out of the chain and inserted the Gordon (or the GML, Millenia, DACS, etc.)

That would let all of us really hear what the DAV was contributing to the recorded sample, as opposed to another preamp option. Chessrock correctly points out that you might be such a good engineer, that you might be able to get a much better sound than the rest of us even if you were using a Behrnger preamp - so just posting one wonderful sounding clip doesn't really tell any of us what the DAV sounds like. No knock on you - that would actually be a compliment.

Anyone trying to help out others in any way deserves respect, so this is not a personal criticism. My only point is that changing your methodology and posting clips where we can actually compare two different preamps in an otherwise identical recording chain would be far more useful to all of us, and would generally be consistent with the "scientific method".

I can't take credit for this suggestion - it is really just a paraphrase of what Chessrock said. But perhaps coming from another independent source you will view the suggestion on it's own merits.

I know I would be very interested in hearing such a comparison. Perhaps others would as well.
 
SonicAlbert said:
Well, the thing about that is that you order DAV products direct from the company. So the first person you deal with is Mick. If you own a DAV product you know Mick to a certain extent, it's just how it works. So it's not necessarily a buddy buddy thing to mention his name.
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Thanks, Alby. You describe things more eloquently than I can. ;) Everyone who deals with those products knows Mick. Whether it is with making a purchase or getting something repaired.


littledog said:
I'm not familiar with the DAV preamps, so I would be very interested in hearing what they sound like. For instance, you mention a number of very highly regarded preamps and say that for a clean sound, the DAV beats them all - even the Gordon, which is regarded by some as the holy grail of preamps.
[snip]
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Yes, to my ears they sound much better, and I preferred them in each and every instance.Even though I can generally buy whatever I choose to buy, I am very happy to save a lot of money.. My point here was not to do a dramatic comparison. I simply posted samples because someone asked me to. I never record instruments in a one on one fashion, everything Is done on location in one take. what I can do is post these samples from a friend, one with the Millennia HV-3(one of those other "holy grail" preamps that people make a fuss about, which I have two of and dont use at all) and one with the DAV. (pay particular attention to the percussion)


Millennia HV-3C

DAV BG-1


and this website: http://www.target-music.ch/studio/sounds.htm

and this: http://www.michaelsawitzke.com/teddy/ <<all DAV preamp
 
Thanks Ray.

I completely understand why you wouldn't have a ready-made scientific comparision test lying around. I wouldn't either - no reason why anyone would unless that was what they intentionally had set out to do - and most of us wouldn 't have the opportunity to do it on the client's dime!
 
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