DAV Preamp samples.

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Well of anyone is in any doubt whether it’s the same person they can register at taperssection and check this thread out:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=43578.0

He posts his email address- raytheapostleATyahooDOTCOM, the same email address as is in his user profile here at homerecording.com.

Although I suspect he’ll remove that pretty quick after I’ve posted this.

He also talked about being an American living in Heidelberg Germany and being in the US army over there. Oh it’s the same Teddy Ray alright.

Curiously he also got involved in a few of the political discussions over there and he came off as pretty left wing/liberal whereas over here he sounds like Michael Savage.

The guy’s a nut.

Like I said he's a pretty good bullshitter though.

 

[John Berry]

I can tell you now I know he's a liare and a crap-artist.I have information sourced elsewhere to back all this up.From what I have researched and read about the DAV BG it is built mostly of cheap parts chips and suffers from 'motorboating' if loaded too much.The dude who complained about his unit 'motorboating' is allready selling his unit off at record.org . "DAV BG #2 - Mint/New Condition - $!250 ." <That really sucks>
I would never buy any DAV model 'cause I just thinks this Big Ray guy really stinks. I am Sorry for just my opinion.

 

[SonicAlbert]

Would you please describe what "motorboating" is? Have you personally ever heard it?

Honestly, your "research" consists of searches of message boards and basically choosing which crap artist you want to believe. You've simply chosen crap artists that don't like the DAV.

The only person I've ever read saying that the BG-1 has cheap parts is Jim Williams, a guy I know and who I've hired to upgrade a couple pieces of gear for me. He totally knows his stuff, but by the same token his opinions are his opinions. The BG-1 is one piece that I wouldn't have him change because I like the way it sounds as is, cheap parts or not.

If you have information sources to back up your statements, let's have them.

P.S. I do think your choice of Rane MS-1B is a good one.

 

[littledog]

Damn! Andf all this time I thought Ray WAS Rudy Van Gelder...

 

[chessrock]

The only person I've ever read saying that the BG-1 has cheap parts is Jim Williams ...

There are few guys on the web whom I consider to be authorities on this kind of thing; Scott Dorsey, Monte McGuire, Dan Kennedy, Mark McQuilkin, and Jim Willams.

Anything that one of those guys says, I just take as gospel. And of course there are a few others I'm missing, but those guys just come to mind. If Jim says something, I'm listening.

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[SonicAlbert]

Yeah, but Jim will say stuff like that about a lot of gear. He has his approach, which is a good one, but maybe you don't want everything to sound like that. Not knocking him in any way, I love his work.

It's just that any piece of gear is more than simply a collection of parts. It's how the parts work together toward that particular function and sound. I don't care what John Berry may have read in endless message board searches, I like what I hear out of the BG-1. And I can at least say that I've heard it, which is more than he or most anyone else on this board can say. And which is more than what most of those other people talking about the BG-1 can say as well. It just sounds really good to me.

 

[chessrock]

I just did a search and read Jim's comments on the DAV.

It's another INA217 mic pre. All I can say to that is "woopty-doo." If you want a decent, clean design utilizing a Texas Instruments opamp, why not just get the Rane unit (MS1B)? From what I gather, the DAV is using mostly cheap parts (transistors, etc.) surrounding it, so I'm having a hard time grasping what would set it apart (from every other budget pre using the 217), other than it's sturdy contruction and look.

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[BigRay]

Part names dont mean much. The new RADAR has the same A/D chip as the Alesis HD-24...big deal. The SOUND is all that matters. Paying attention to anything other than the sound is foolish. Do you go by looks alone??If so, id be surprised if you had any clients.

 

[Robert D]

I don't see the value in a Mackie "baseline", or any other cheapo preamp baseline. Even between different models and generations of Mackie gear there are differences in sound.

There's no way that user posted gear samples are ever going to be scientific, which is why I talked about having enough data points to arrive at some averaging. Most people are relatively familiar with Mackie mixers, a whole lot of people have one, and it's probably about the closest you can come to a psuedo reference for "what does this $1500 per channel preamp sound like compared to a typical $25 per channel decent quality mixer pre. What a lot of owners of expensive pres will have a problem with is that at first blush, the correlation between price difference and sound difference is highly skewed and dissapointing, and may be lost all together on un-educated ears with poor monitoring systems in un-treated rooms, listening to clips of dubious quality. But I think this has been well discussed, and most members have read a hundred times it's how the tracks stack up.
I'm not saying all samples should be referenced against a Mackie mixer, just that when possible it's nice to hear comparisons vs single files, and best when one of the files is a piece of gear that lot's of folks are familiar with. Regardless of the other gear, you can start to discern what part of what you're hearing is the preamp, and what is the rest of the chain and room when you compare files.

 

[mshilarious]

This is freakin hilarious. Big Ray has been in the recording game for about a year and a half, he’s a fucking crock.

When BigRay showed up here, he had some rather basic questions as well . . . but you know, he seems to be a fast learner, because the recordings he posts don't suck.

I wish I could say the same about me

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Part names dont mean much. The new RADAR has the same A/D chip as the Alesis HD-24...big deal. The SOUND is all that matters. Paying attention to anything other than the sound is foolish. Do you go by looks alone??If so, id be surprised if you had any clients.

Well it depends how reliable your ears are doesn't it? For instance how much would you value the critical listening abilities of someone who's only been into recording for 18 months?

 

[chessrock]

Part names dont mean much. The new RADAR has the same A/D chip as the Alesis HD-24...big deal. The SOUND is all that matters. Paying attention to anything other than the sound is foolish. Do you go by looks alone??If so, id be surprised if you had any clients.

Acutually, from a sonic perspective, I think that most of the INA-based mic pres out there are very clean and accurate sounding, as far as mic pres go. I tend to prefer the INA163 units myself (Grace Design, Rane MS1b, etc.) ... but you can't argue with the 217's specs. Honestly, though, I think the Rane does such a good job with the 163 chip, that I don't necessarily see the need to consider something like the Grace, and that's actually based on what I hear ... with my ears, according to your own little theory there.

When you're dealing with an instrument amp based mic pre ... the instrument amp is the heart of the system, and is a much more pertinant component than, say, a processor is to the computer. If we were talking about a discrete design, or even a tube amp utilizing a transformer at the input, then we'd be looking at a much more complex thing, but we're not.

Based on what I've learned, I don't see where there would be any reason for me to even bother listening to it. I've heard others like it, and there's just nothing about it that peaks my interest in any way.

Every year there's another company that sticks an INA217 in a box with a bunch of transistors and wires, hypes it up and makes a bunch of claims as to how great their mic pre is ... before it gets some use, and people figure out it's just another decent mic pre. If someone can point out to me just what DAV has done differently with their design (what fairy dust they're sprinkling in it), then my interest might be piqued enough to even consider trying one out. But somehow I highly doubt your ability to do this, so thankyou anyway.


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[BigRay]

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=202413

John Berry is a troll..Probably the same guy as "arn weller"...(who was banned from another message board for being a childish dipshit who refuses to identify himself .) but anyway, none of this BS matters. Results matter. Getting work matters. Ability to work in a variety of different situations and get good results matters. Everything else is pointless.

and yes, I readily admit that I was a member on that message board, and that I didnt know dick when I first started. I have spent my entire music career(classical singer) on the OTHER side of the microphone. It was only after beginning to document my voice lessons that I developed a rabid interest in recording gear. Through the grace of God I was able to be taken under the wing of a few classical/location engineers , get enrolled in classes, and spend whatever free time I had busting my ass learning microphone techniques and reading through handbooks, gear manuals, and most importantly , going out on gigs with these masters of the craft..learning what was what, failing, getting lectured, and failing again...After a while those above me had such confidence in me that I was sent on gigs alone. After a few months in the trenches, I was able to build my own clientele. It is also through the Grace of God that I was contacted by one of my heroes in live/acoustic recording, and offered the head location engineer position the classical division.... So while I readily admit that I was a complete dumbass(as most classical musicians that I know are in regards to recording) and am still a dumbass in the scheme of things, I am confident in my knowledge, and I am making money doing what I love doing..Recording, Singing, and Playing.. I have a 4 night run at the end of this month that will net a rather large profit for me, and I will probably buy more gear and watch my clientele grow more. Say what you will. I am good at what I do, and I will only get better. How many people can say that they could live on their music income alone??Not many! I can. I could seperate from the army tommorow and still feed my family well, from only recording income.. the army income is just extra.

Chessrock, in spite of what "knowledge" you may have, you spew such childish, malice filled nonsense each and every day, more so than the good advice you give(which does happen on occasion), that you seem quite full of shit yourself. Others share my sentiment.


say what you will, I get work, my clients respect me, and I post samples of my work regularly. You get out of this gig what you put into it, and ive busted my ass getting to where I am. I will continue to bust my ass ,and next year I will probably be working in a major firm, and STILL busting my ass.

Results matter. The rest doesnt mean dick.

 

[chessrock]

I don't care if you "bust your ass," Big Ray.

Only a year in to this, you're still a newb ... and we have a special forum for newbs, last time I checked, so I'm afraid you're in the wrong section, son.

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[BigRay]

Every year there's another company that sticks an INA217 in a box with a bunch of transistors and wires, hypes it up and makes a bunch of claims as to how great their mic pre is ... before it gets some use, and people figure out it's just another decent mic pre. If someone can point out to me just what DAV has done differently with their design, then my interest might be piqued enough to even consider trying one out. But somehow I highly doubt your ability to do this, so thankyou anyway.


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You are right on the EE ability. I have none. NONE. Mick is better qualified to answer questions about his products. Being of the "listening" type(and not having the technical aptitude of a 3 year old), I have no idea what he does...I can only say that the DAVs, compathe red with the other "boutique" preamps that I used when I was building my own portable kit, won by leaps and bounds. Of course it is fine for you not to like them, Chess. I wont be offended if you never buy anything from him. There are those of us(and many respected in their fields) that love the products and buy them regularly. His clientele speaks volumes too. But to rule a product out from the get go , based on part numbers is a little short sighted, dont you think??

If you dont like the pre, dont buy it. If you do, buy it. If you like it, say so, if you dont, say so...once again, the only thing that matters is results. I get fantastic results with them. I am very glad that I can save money and not buy gordons or more millennias. That I can have money to give to my newborn. Anyway, I will continue to post samples of my work. That is what things all boil down to, anyway......the proof of the pudding is in the eating..

 

[fraserhutch]

So then what is the minimum amount of time doing this that makes us eligible to post in this section?

 

[BigRay]

I don't care if you "bust your ass," Big Ray.

Only a year in to this, you're still a newb ... and we have a special forum for newbs, last time I checked, so I'm afraid you're in the wrong section, son.

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post samples. Thats all that matters, son. To hell with titles. Ive got the clients, and the samples. (and make good money too!) Unfortunately, I am not a studio guy. I am probably the only live/location acoustic guy there is on this forum. Ive spent 14-15 years as a classical musician so I am very confident in my ears. It was a natural progression for me, and I am doing just fine. Where will you be in a year (not an insult, just asking)..I am damn sure I will be making money recording..just like here.

 

[BigRay]

So then what is the minimum amount of time doing this that makes us eligible to post in this section?

bah! post samples! if your work sucks, thats the tale!.we all have different rates of learning, so the "newbie" thing is silly. A newbie is someone who doesnt grasp concepts and asks stupid questions. as far as work... I am fairly confident my work doesnt suck. On the other hand, there are guys who have been at it for many years, and have posted clips, and i have said, man, that sucks!

Talk is cheap! the proof is in the damn audio clips! post them. Please.

 

[chessrock]

But to rule a product out from the get go , based on part numbers is a little short sighted, dont you think??

Look, Newbie ...

If someone is trying to sell me a computer, and they're telling me it's the fastest, most stable computer on the planet, naturally, I'm going to be curious what's under the hood.

Now suppose I find out it has a 700 Mhz processor. Are you going to tell me that the processor speed has nothing to do with it's performance? And if I fire back and ask you "What else about this computer makes it special?" Are you trying to tell me that "I don't know" is an acceptable answer?

Come on, Newb. Give me something to go by, here. The 700 Mhz processor isn't impressing me. How much RAM does it have? How big is the hard drive? How about the bus? Forgive me for wanting to have other reasons to look at your slow turd of a computer, Big Ray!

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[BigRay]

you cant compare the two...computer speed is real, computer speed is tangible. Audio is different. Interpretations of sound vary widely from one person to the next. Besides that,..all the components in a preamp are chosen for synergy...how well they work in a critical listening situation... we cannot measure that which cannot be measured..if you rule an item out based on part#s alone, you are selling yourself short! ..with ANY piece of gear. The gordon looks like a lamborghini, but sounded like an accord.

as far as the DAV.....

all of the Decca records used the 4ch "Decca preamp" which is identical with BG-1 and BG-2 (except the high pass filters present in the latter ones).

So a reply to your answer could be found here:

http://www.deccaclassics.com/index.html

and also here (they also use these preamps in the modified console):

http://www.classicsound.net/center.htm

so talk specs all you want. I listen! do you have a bunch of avalons because they look pretty???

Look, Newbie ...

If someone is trying to sell me a computer, and they're telling me it's the fastest, most stable computer on the planet, naturally, I'm going to be curious what's under the hood.

Now suppose I find out it has a 700 Mhz processor. Are you going to tell me that the processor speed has nothing to do with it's performance? And if I fire back and ask you "What else about this computer makes it special?" Are you trying to tell me that "I don't know" is an acceptable answer?

Come on, Newb. Give me something to go by, here. The 700 Mhz processor isn't impressing me. How much RAM does it have? How big is the hard drive? How about the bus? Forgive me for wanting to have other reasons to look at your slow turd of a computer, Big Ray!

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