DAV Preamp samples.

[SonicAlbert]

I have to say, the DAV BG-1 sounds very good. Don't care what's in it, all this talk of chips is really irrelevant. It's about the sound. I put my BG-1 up against my Grace 201 and couldn't justify keeping the Grace. Great preamp, no question, but I preferred the DAV for my uses.

Again, don't care what chip is in it. Couldn't care less. How does it sound? That's all I care about.

It's just totally insane to argue about audio gear based on chips, without having even heard it. Seriously, not dissing anybody, but are we really listening to what we are saying here?

Still waiting for someone to tell me what "motorboating" is.

 

[BigRay]

I have to say, the DAV BG-1 sounds very good. Don't care what's in it, all this talk of chips is really irrelevant. It's about the sound. I put my BG-1 up against my Grace 201 and couldn't justify keeping the Grace. Great preamp, no question, but I preferred the DAV for my uses.

Again, don't care what chip is in it. Couldn't care less. How does it sound? That's all I care about.

It's just totally insane to argue about audio gear based on chips, without having even heard it. Seriously, not dissing anybody, but are we really listening to what we are saying here?

Still waiting for someone to tell me what "motorboating" is.

Alby, John Berry is a troll. That is obvious, he came on dissing the pres, with his first posts, and has done nothing but....

 

[littledog]

I realize that a lot of the "newbie-slinging" going on is a somewhat tongue-in-cheek way of teasing Ray.

But from my perspective, it's kind of like one of those guys they bring in from China or Africa or someplace who has only been playing basketball for a couple of years - but based on their hard work and natural ability still make it to the NBA. Yeah, they haven't been playing since they were five years old, but that makes their accomplishments all the more admirable.

If Ray has brought himself from "nothing" and turned himself into a competent pro in 18 months, he has nothing but my admiration.

The fact that he has little or no technical training in electrical engineering, but comes from the musical performance side of the fence, is not particularly unusual in these modern times. I know, because I'm the same way. We bring some other skills to the table that not all traditional engineers necessarily have. Our ears and musicality may enable us to make suggestions concerning arrangements, orchestration, reharmonizations, vocal technique, etc. in ways that non-professional performers might not hear or think of. I can solder a cable, but I've never recapped a board. So what - I know plenty of people I can hire to do that for me.

I am in no way putting down anyone who does have extensive technical knowledge - I am in awe of many of them. But there is room behind the glass for both types in today's recording world.

 

[chessrock]

you cant compare the two...computer speed is real, computer speed is tangible. Audio is different. Interpretations of sound vary widely from one person to the next. Besides that,..all the components in a preamp are chosen for synergy...how well they work in a critical listening situation... we cannot measure that which cannot be measured..if you rule an item out based on part#s alone, you are selling yourself short!

Not at all. What you're failing to acknowlege, however, is the simple fact that, for a mic pre that uses that kind of design ... the instrument amp is the heart of it, in much the same way as the processor is the heart of the computer. Just about all of the gain chores are handled by that one chip. Everything is built around it, with the idea of utilizing it to it's fullest abilities.

If someone tells me a particular guitar amp uses EL-84 power tubes and Celestian Greenbacks ... I don't need to listen to it in order to get an idea of what general kind of sound or personality it is going to have, and what it will be capable of doing. The INA217 mic pre is no different. I haven't heard of any revolutionary ways anyone's dreamed up in recent years that makes it sound radically different or better than anything else using it. Unless maybe it used a kickass Lundahl or Jensen transformer for impedence-mathching at the input or something ... which the DAV doesn't, to my knowlege.

.

 

[BigRay]

Chess, you can theorize, assume, and hypothesise all you want, but judging without hearing is short-sighted. Ruling things out based on "specs" alone is short-sighted, and a little dumb, in my opinion....but its all good. Use what works for you, and I will use what works for me. Thats all anyone should expect. The Gordons with all their discrete components and balanced topology and transformer balanced inputs, etc...did NOTHING for me. Same with Millennia. Now on paper those two look like the holy grail....

I think youve established why you will not use it. Ive established why I will continue to. I make a motion that this thread die..incredibly silly , this stuff....

Not at all. What you're failing to acknowlege, however, is the simple fact that, for a mic pre that uses that kind of design ... the instrument amp is the heart of it, in much the same way as the processor is the heart of the computer. Just about all of the gain chores are handled by that one chip. Everything is built around it, with the idea of utilizing it to it's fullest abilities.

If someone tells me a particular guitar amp uses EL-84 power tubes and Celestian Greenbacks ... I don't need to listen to it in order to get an idea of what general kind of sound or personality it is going to have, and what it will be capable of doing. The INA217 mic pre is no different. I haven't heard of any revolutionary ways anyone's dreamed up in recent years that makes it sound radically different or better than anything else using it. Unless maybe it used a kickass Lundahl or Jensen transformer for impedence-mathching at the input or something ... which the DAV doesn't, to my knowlege.

.

 

[BigRay]

Amen, Sir!(I can solder cables, BTW..but the heavy duty tech stuff makes my brain hurt)

I realize that a lot of the "newbie-slinging" going on is a somewhat tongue-in-cheek way of teasing Ray.

But from my perspective, it's kind of like one of those guys they bring in from China or Africa or someplace who has only been playing basketball for a couple of years - but based on their hard work and natural ability still make it to the NBA. Yeah, they haven't been playing since they were five years old, but that makes their accomplishments all the more admirable.

If Ray has brought himself from "nothing" and turned himself into a competent pro in 18 months, he has nothing but my admiration.

The fact that he has little or no technical training in electrical engineering, but comes from the musical performance side of the fence, is not particularly unusual in these modern times. I know, because I'm the same way. We bring some other skills to the table that not all traditional engineers necessarily have. Our ears and musicality may enable us to make suggestions concerning arrangements, orchestration, reharmonizations, vocal technique, etc. in ways that non-professional performers might not hear or think of. I can solder a cable, but I've never recapped a board. So what - I know plenty of people I can hire to do that for me.

I am in no way putting down anyone who does have extensive technical knowledge - I am in awe of many of them. But there is room behind the glass for both types in today's recording world.

 

[SonicAlbert]

I look at it this way:

Someone can write a crappy song with I, IV, V, I, but someone else can write a masterpiece with the same chords.

I don't think it's that different with chips, as there are many other factors besides the chips themselves.

 

[chessrock]

If Ray has brought himself from "nothing" and turned himself into a competent pro in 18 months, he has nothing but my admiration.

The problem with this is that we're talking about a guy who, after only a year's worth of experience, is trying to come off as some sort of authority. I'm sorry, but after my first year, I sucked. And so did everyone else I know who does this sort of thing. And everything I pretended to know (or thought I knew, to be more accurate) during that time should be disregarded.

Just like everything that Big dumbass has to say should be similarly disregarded. The guy's a fraud, and I can't believe I've been wasting my time on this thread. I got sucked in to a pissing match with a freakin' newbie.

.

 

[BigRay]

Just like everything that Big dumbass has to say should be similarly disregarded. The guy's a fraud, and I can't believe I've been wasting my time on this thread. I got sucked in to a pissing match with a freakin' newbie.

.

The mark of a professional. Slinging insults/namecalling when backed into a corner.
put up samples, Chess. whats stopping you? Id love to know what sort of gear you have too...what you mix on, what your monitors are, recent projects, etc...but samples of your work are most important. Have you ever posted anything here or offered to mix something in the mp3 clinic??I would think that an established professional would be proud of his work.. I sure as hell am!I aint perfect, but I do decent work! I cant stay on too long because I have a *gasp*! gig tommorow. Bach Motets with Jazz Improvisation, followed by a concert for flute and oboe.Darmstadt Cathedral. 1900 EUR for the 12 hour day and 2 masters(yep, I do all the mixing and mastering)..If I can obtain permission, I will try and post samples just for you.

Now with all the GREAT engineers out there, I wonder how you fare?

Good night, Mr. Professional!

 

[sdelsolray]

The problem with this is that we're talking about a guy who, after only a year's worth of experience, is trying to come off as some sort of authority. I'm sorry, but after my first year, I sucked. And so did everyone else I know who does this sort of thing. And everything I pretended to know (or thought I knew, to be more accurate) during that time should be disregarded.

Just like everything that Big dumbass has to say should be similarly disregarded. The guy's a fraud, and I can't believe I've been wasting my time on this thread. I got sucked in to a pissing match with a freakin' newbie.

.

You are not taking into account Ray's years of experience as a musician. He's no fraud. Passionate, opinionated, a bit black and white at times perhaps, but so what?

I have a similar background, an undergradute degree in classical guitar performance, with subsequent university teaching, grants, etc. I put it all down to become a lawyer. Years later my interest rekindled, not only in guitar (it shifted from classical to solo acoustic fingerstyle), but in recording too, of which I knew very little (this was about 5 or 6 years ago).

It didn't take long at all to figure out a gear list to populate a personal studio. As a recording "newbie", it was perfectly and immediately clear to my ears what gear to get. The first preamp I bought was a Pendulum MDP-1a. Later a John Hardy. And although I first bought Neumann mics, I quickly sold those to get Schoeps and Gefells, among others. I'm just a hobbyist, yet mic room treatment and mic positioning was easy as pie, and it didn't take long to get it together. While I enjoyed specs and technical issues, it was the listening that drove my boat.

Why? Because my ears were already trained, and trained well. Hundreds and hundreds of hours over the years listening to live (unamplified) music, acedemic study, practicing my instrument, performing, touring, teaching, choral work, piano, etc.

The most difficult area I've had to deal with is mixing, etc. in the DAW, and that's for only two to four tracks of the same single performance source. That has been a challenge. But the rest of it was pretty darn easy. And I think I've recently solved the DAW/mixing issue - I've gone outboard instead of using plugins. Duh! World of difference. Simple as pie.

Not all of us are involved with recording bands, 24 or 36 tracks of this and that and 50 different mics. Indeed, some of us only do this for pure enjoyment without any desire or need to make money at it.

So Chess, lighten up. There's plenty of room for all of us, as different as we all may be.

 

[BigRay]

man, I didnt know you had a guitar degree!! that is awesome. The curricula for guitar focus students at the school I went to was grueling, I cant imagine!
Learn something new every day about my forum peers.

You are not taking into account Ray's years of experience as a musician. He's no fraud. Passionate, opinionated, a bit black and white at times perhaps, but so what?

I have a similar background, an undergradute degree in classical guitar performance, with subsequent university teaching, grants, etc. I put it all down to become a lawyer. Years later my interest rekindled, not only in guitar (it shifted from classical to solo acoustic fingerstyle), but in recording too, of which I knew very little (this was about 5 or 6 years ago).

It didn't take long at all to figure out a gear list to populate a personal studio. As a recording "newbie", it was perfectly and immediately clear to my ears what gear to get. The first preamp I bought was a Pendulum MDP-1a. Later a John Hardy. And although I first bought Neumann mics, I quickly sold those to get Schoeps and Gefells, among others. I'm just a hobbyist, yet mic room treatment and mic positioning was easy as pie, and it didn't take long to get it together. While I enjoyed specs and technical issues, it was the listening that drove my boat.

Why? Because my ears were already trained, and trained well. Hundreds and hundreds of hours over the years listening to live (unamplified) music, acedemic study, practicing my instrument, performing, touring, teaching, choral work, piano, etc.

The most difficult area I've had to deal with is mixing, etc. in the DAW, and that's for only two to four tracks of the same single performance source. That has been a challenge. But the rest of it was pretty darn easy. And I think I've recently solved the DAW/mixing issue - I've gone outboard instead of using plugins. Duh! World of difference. Simple as pie.

Not all of us are involved with recording bands, 24 or 36 tracks of this and that and 50 different mics. Indeed, some of us only do this for pure enjoyment without any desire or need to make money at it.

So Chess, lighten up. There's plenty of room for all of us, as different as we all may be.

 

[Robert D]

I look at it this way:

Someone can write a crappy song with I, IV, V, I, but someone else can write a masterpiece with the same chords.

I don't think it's that different with chips, as there are many other factors besides the chips themselves.

To an extent, but as long as the chip is in the signal path, it will have properties that no amount of cleverness in how it is implimented can change. If we have a $200 guitar, I play it, then Eric Clapton plays it, it's gonna sound better in ECs hands, but it can't sound like a $2000 guitar played by EC. There's room for maximizing what you can get out of any chip, but there's a limit, and the chip does matter in the end. The same cleverness and use of quality supporting components around a superior chip will yield a superior product.

 

[fraserhutch]

Wow, that sounds familiar to me - I have an undergraduate degree in music performance in trumpet, and a minor in theory and composition. Got offtrack becoming a software engineer (yet another degree, ug). I got into recording pretty much the same way you did except that I bet I don;t make as much as you, lol.

What a funny world.......

You are not taking into account Ray's years of experience as a musician. He's no fraud. Passionate, opinionated, a bit black and white at times perhaps, but so what?

I have a similar background, an undergradute degree in classical guitar performance, with subsequent university teaching, grants, etc. I put it all down to become a lawyer. Years later my interest rekindled, not only in guitar (it shifted from classical to solo acoustic fingerstyle), but in recording too, of which I knew very little (this was about 5 or 6 years ago).

It didn't take long at all to figure out a gear list to populate a personal studio. As a recording "newbie", it was perfectly and immediately clear to my ears what gear to get. The first preamp I bought was a Pendulum MDP-1a. Later a John Hardy. And although I first bought Neumann mics, I quickly sold those to get Schoeps and Gefells, among others. I'm just a hobbyist, yet mic room treatment and mic positioning was easy as pie, and it didn't take long to get it together. While I enjoyed specs and technical issues, it was the listening that drove my boat.

Why? Because my ears were already trained, and trained well. Hundreds and hundreds of hours over the years listening to live (unamplified) music, acedemic study, practicing my instrument, performing, touring, teaching, choral work, piano, etc.

The most difficult area I've had to deal with is mixing, etc. in the DAW, and that's for only two to four tracks of the same single performance source. That has been a challenge. But the rest of it was pretty darn easy. And I think I've recently solved the DAW/mixing issue - I've gone outboard instead of using plugins. Duh! World of difference. Simple as pie.

Not all of us are involved with recording bands, 24 or 36 tracks of this and that and 50 different mics. Indeed, some of us only do this for pure enjoyment without any desire or need to make money at it.

So Chess, lighten up. There's plenty of room for all of us, as different as we all may be.

 

[BigRay]

superior chip will yield a superior product.{snip]

Robert, all this is speculation, and unprovable. What you are talking about is scientific/specs on paper...I am talking about how things SOUND..you cannot make claims of superiority in this gig...it is impossible...talking specs means absolutely nothing

Like I said, on paper, the Gordon should be the holy grail..yet I found nothing desirable about it. A preamp can have the all the perfect specs in the world but still sound offensive to the end user. The most anyone can hope to say is that there is no right answer, and there is no superior product overall..The end user is the judge. Noone else.. Bottom line.

 

[chessrock]

The most difficult area I've had to deal with is mixing, etc. in the DAW, and that's for only two to four tracks of the same single performance source. That has been a challenge. But the rest of it was pretty darn easy.

Wow, that must be so tough engineering and mixing all four of those tracks.

How does it feel to be a freakin' prodigy?

 

[Supercreep]

Yeah, I'm a noob - so what?

I hate snobs of all types, and having someone condescend to "noobs" on HR makes me sick. This whole goddamn board is for the home recording enthusiast. If you've got someplace more professional to be, by all means go there. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.


BigRay was a noob 18 months ago? OMGWTFBBQ!!!1!!1.... Based on the quality of his work posted he's paying attention. We've all got something to learn, and that's why we're here.


Well, most of us anyway.

BTW, thanks for turning me on to the DAV, BigRay. I prefer it to my other inexpensive pres on most sources.

 

[BigRay]

no problem man. glad you are enjoying it.

I hate snobs of all types, and having someone condescend to "noobs" on HR makes me sick. This whole goddamn board is for the home recording enthusiast. If you've got someplace more professional to be, by all means go there. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.


BigRay was a noob 18 months ago? OMGWTFBBQ!!!1!!1.... Based on the quality of his work posted he's paying attention. We've all got something to learn, and that's why we're here.


Well, most of us anyway.

BTW, thanks for turning me on to the DAV, BigRay. I prefer it to my other inexpensive pres on most sources.

 

[Supercreep]

Anything that one of those guys says, I just take as gospel. And of course there are a few others I'm missing, but those guys just come to mind. If Jim says something, I'm listening.

.

Can I get Jim's email address? Perhaps I can ask him to tell you to cool your jets.

 

[sdelsolray]

Wow, that must be so tough engineering and mixing all four of those tracks.

How does it feel to be a freakin' prodigy?

No, there's no magic or voodoo. My point is that learning to listen well isn't the sole province of recording engineers. Musicians learn to listen too.

 

[SonicAlbert]

Actually, one of the "hardest to mix" projects I've ever done was a piano solo album I recorded. And I hired a great engineer for it. I thought it would be a piece of cake, but in fact it was so exposed and demanding of perfection that it was far harder than projects with a lot of tracks.

Regarding training, I have a similar educational background as some of the others here. A bachelors and masters in classical piano and chamber music performance.

Once you spend all that time training I could easily see being able to get on the other side of the mic and having the ears for it. It's not that big a jump, once you educate yourself to the gear and the techniques.