Dav Bg-1

  • Thread starter Thread starter antispatula
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that photo makes it look even worse !

It looks to me like some of the unit is point to point wiring and other parts are circuit board connections.
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IEC mains socket is near audio out XLR......that's why it needs shielded cable.
underrated torrodial ( not encased ) transformer . cheapo .

it all confirms to me that this preamp is not worth over $80 in parts.
not a good idea putting that photo up.
 
I wish someone who knew what they were talking about would weigh in here..... I include myself in that I only know I really like the way it sounds and that's all I know about it. Seems like enough though.
 
Rodger Hartlett said:
that photo makes it look even worse !

IEC mains socket is near audio out XLR......that's why it needs shielded cable.
underrated torrodial ( not encased ) transformer . cheapo .

it all confirms to me that this preamp is not worth over $80 in parts.
not a good idea putting that photo up.
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I have to say that your response was entirely predictable. Your words are virtually identical to what I expected you to say.

Have you ever opened up audio gear before? Most of the time when you open up a case, even for very expensive gear, it's just air in there. If you've spent a lot of money it can be disheartening.

This is why I keep going back to *what's important*, i.e. how the gear sounds. This preamp sounds great!
 
Rodger Hartlett said:
that photo makes it look even worse !

IEC mains socket is near audio out XLR......that's why it needs shielded cable.
underrated torrodial ( not encased ) transformer . cheapo .

it all confirms to me that this preamp is not worth over $80 in parts.
not a good idea putting that photo up.
Click to expand...

I have to say that your response was entirely predictable. Your words are virtually identical to what I expected you to say.

Most of the time when you open up a case, even for very expensive gear, it's just air in there. If you've spent a lot of money it can be disheartening. This is why I keep going back to *what's important*, i.e. how the gear sounds. This preamp sounds great!
 
jonnyc said:
My point was that you shouldn't assume that someone doesn't know something, he doesn't have to own one to know what parts were used on it.
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lets see

to make a watercolor painting you use

paper, water, pigments, brushes


paper can be rag, mould made, hot or cold pressed, 90#, 140#

brushes can be red sable, camel hair, hog bristle, #2, #6, #12

some colors are alizarin crimson, burnt sienna, cobalt blue, phthalo green



ok, now i'm an artist :)




the point being

you can know what something is made of

but not how it's made



two circuits can be made of essentially the same components

but depending on the design, layout, build quality

screening and quality control of components

and subassemblies, and likely other factor factors

of which i am ignorant

the final products are worlds apart

in how well they function



so it comes back to how it sounds

and not what it's made of
 
cannabis said:
two circuits can be made of essentially the same components

but depending on the design, layout, build quality

screening and quality control of components

and subassemblies, and likely other factor factors

of which i am ignorant ...
Click to expand...



Now look who's talking out of their ass.

Look, I don't pretend to know everything about electronics. But I know just enough to be able to make informed decisions. And I know a few people, personally, who have forgotten more about this stuff than most of on this board will ever know in our collective lifetimes. And at least one of these people have been kind enough to enlighten me, over the years, as to what to look for in mic pres, from an electronics / component and build standpoint. I've also frequented the DIY boards through the years and have done enough research to where I know exactly what to look for and what not to look for.

But I will fully come out and say quite boldly that if all you care about is how the unit sounds ... and how it will hold up for the next 5 years or so ... then the argument I'm trying to make probably won't hold any interest to you, and probably has little to no value to you.

It's kind of a nuanced point (and sometimes nuanced arguments bother people) because on one hand I'm agreeing that sound should be the unltimate deciding factor. On the other hand, I'm pointing out that the unit we're discussing here is a very simple design, using the same basic components and layout as the budget gear selling for $200 that many on this board are already using and building themselves. You can take that for whatever it's worth, and you're entitled to form your own views on that.

But if you don't feel that this statement is adequately qualified, I will gladly share my sources. Including detailed email exchanges I've had with a noted designer/builder of quality audio equipment over the years (which I'd be happy to share with you offline) ... and secondly, the many posts by Jim Williams on the gearslutz board which are in full view and searchable for the public. Both of which specifically address the unit we're currently discussing ... and both sources with thorough and intimage knowlege of it.

In other words, I'm not just talking out of my ass, and to suggest that I would just throw things out there with little to no research and without having a basis for which my claims are being made and checked ... is frankly rather unobservant and ignorant on your part.

.
 
cannabis said:
lets see

to make a watercolor painting you use

paper, water, pigments, brushes


paper can be rag, mould made, hot or cold pressed, 90#, 140#

brushes can be red sable, camel hair, hog bristle, #2, #6, #12

some colors are alizarin crimson, burnt sienna, cobalt blue, phthalo green



ok, now i'm an artist :)




the point being

you can know what something is made of

but not how it's made



two circuits can be made of essentially the same components

but depending on the design, layout, build quality

screening and quality control of components

and subassemblies, and likely other factor factors

of which i am ignorant

the final products are worlds apart

in how well they function



so it comes back to how it sounds

and not what it's made of
Click to expand...



You just don't get it, or you aren't capable of getting it. You don't have to be an electronics expert to know how something's made, you just have to do some research and aparently chess has done it. I know for a fact Jim Williams knows what he's talking about and have read several of the post Chess is refering to that are authored by Jim. You know, you also don't have to be a mechanic to know stuff about cars, you don't have to have a computer degree to know how one works, hell you don't even have to go to art school to be a painter, it is possible to teach yourself things you know, your analogy sucks almost as bad as your english skills.
 
I wish you guys would stop bringing up Jim Williams' name as some sort of endorsement for your opinions. He's a guy that does great work, no question. But he has his own theories and ideals as far as sound. Not everybody likes the sound of those fast video chips he uses in his mods.

And there's a lot of gear he doesn't like--lots of really, really expensive gear with big famous names that has expensive parts inside. He's a human like the rest of us, not the preacher of gospel, and is not the only opinion out there. I love the guy, he's a true character and superb at what he does. But there's room for his approach *and* other approaches. They can all be right, or at least each can be right some of the time, which is really where it's at.

Incidentally, those of you that are preaching the word of Jim, have you all *heard* his gear or his mods of gear? Just curious, and I'm willing to bet that at least some of you haven't.

I have a couple of units that he modded right here in my rack. They sound great. Also a BG-1 right here in my studio. It sounds great. Unless you've got the same, pick your words very carefully, as it's really obvious when someone is just spouting off stuff they've read somewhere else on a message board.
 
I'd like to offer up my services as a professional counselor. You have all gone past the point of debate and made this thing personal. It's just a piece of gear. Some like it, some think it cost too much for what it is. There, I think that about sums it up. Maybe we should all go to the chronosynclastic infidibulum and work this out. I don't believe it is worth any more bandwidth. Now c'mon kids, let's all go record something and make our clients happy!
 
SonicAlbert said:
I wish you guys would stop bringing up Jim Williams' name as some sort of endorsement for your opinions. He's a guy that does great work, no question. But he has his own theories and ideals as far as sound. Not everybody likes the sound of those fast video chips he uses in his mods.
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Jim just happens to be one of the most recognized names, because he posts on message boards ... but he isn't the only one who has brought up this topic.

His "opinions" have very little to do with any of this. He has simply offered support as to what it is and what it consists of. Observations. I don't believe he's offered much of an opinion on it ... in fact, I believe he said he likes it and it sounds good, if anything.

But I'm with Big K on this. He's the voice of reason. I'm shutting up on this for now. A nuanced argument or point is sometimes just beyond the comprehension level of some people. Before long, the simple mind will reduce a nuanced argument to a simpler one, just so they can comprehend it better and feel like they can still be a part of the discussion. And I'm afraid that's what's been happening here.

.
 
chessrock said:
A nuanced argument or point is sometimes just beyond the comprehension level of some people.
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Agree on that point.
 
Rodger Hartlett said:
that photo makes it look even worse !



IEC mains socket is near audio out XLR......that's why it needs shielded cable.
underrated torrodial ( not encased ) transformer . cheapo .

it all confirms to me that this preamp is not worth over $80 in parts.
not a good idea putting that photo up.
Click to expand...


Most preamps aren"t made with much more than $80 worth of parts, it doesn"t mean you can"t make an awesome sounding piece of equipment with limited Parts Budget , many companies base your Product prices on the Quality of the sound not the Cost of the Parts ,Think API or Neve , which are basicly and Input and output transformer and a Discrete Opamp (some models) which probably costs the company about $100 to build but because they are a very distinctive and have a very desireable sound poeple will spend upwords of $1000 for a single chanel of these pre"s.....

A circuit doesn"t have to be Complex nor does it have to have expensive components to produce and top quality sound but it does have to be well thought out and implemented properly......

The best sounding pre"s that I have in my studio right now is a 2 channel Green Pre (Which are based on a 0.50c Chip) that I built for well under $100 and they sound awesome and very clean and I would put them up against pre"s worth several times there worth which just goes to proove that you don"t need expensive parts or a complex circuit to produce an awesome piece of equipment but the Circuit must be well thought out and implemented properly....

Just my 2c....

:)
 
jonnyc said:
You just don't get it, or you aren't capable of getting it. You don't have to be an electronics expert to know how something's made, semicolon you just have to do some research comma and aparently spelling chess has done it. I know for a fact Jim Williams knows what he's talking about and have read several of the posts Chess is refering spelling to that are authored by Jim. You know, you also don't have to be a mechanic to know stuff about cars, and, or semicolon you don't have to have a computer degree to know how one works, run-on sentence hell you don't even have to go to art school to be a painter, run-on sentence it is possible to teach yourself things you know, run-on sentence your analogy sucks almost as bad as your english capitalization skills.
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:D:D:D:D:D
 

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chessrock said:
...I'm shutting up on this for now. A nuanced argument or point is sometimes just beyond the comprehension level of some people. Before long, the simple mind will reduce a nuanced argument to a simpler one, just so they can comprehend it better and feel like they can still be a part of the discussion. And I'm afraid that's what's been happening here.

.
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:rolleyes: :D
 
cannabis said:
:D:D:D:D:D
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You know I'm not even going to argue with someone who calls me out for puncuation, especially when they use NONE in any of their posts, ever.
 
jonnyc said:
How long did you have to research before you found all my mistakes?
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as i read it, they just popped up

one after the other :)
 
jonnyc said:
You know I'm not even going to argue with someone who calls me out for puncuation spelling, especially when they use NONE in any of their posts, ever.
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that was a quick edit - a little too quick
 
cannabis said:
as i read it, they just popped up

one after the other :)
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Do I need to go through all your posts and call out all your mistakes?



I don't need to have these conversations with pathetic tools like yourself, you're now on my ignore list.
 
jonnyc said:
Do I need to go through all your posts and call out all your mistakes?



I don't need to have these conversations with pathetic tools like yourself, you're now on my ignore list.
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just pointing out that if you can't write an english sentence yourself

it might behoove you not to criticize another's grammar


lighten up - you'll live longer :)
 
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