Dark Recordings, My Room or A/D converters?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Booda
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Booda

Booda

Master of the Obvious
I've been strugglinging with this for a while and really need to figure it out....
I started researching Preamps a few months ago but don't think that's my entire problem. Came to the coclusion it might be my AD. I tried to find a Apogee MINI-Me for rent but couldn't. I've heard others say when they started using it (MM) it was like a blanket got lifted of their speakers.

My recordings are clean and clear but sound dead. Everything needs a Lo cut Hi boost all the time. I am all Software right now (VST 5, Waves Gold, Timeworks,ect...) with a Aardvark Direct Pro for my Preamps and AD/DA.
Mics- NTK,NT5s, 57s, MC012s, c1000, Mic Modeler.

My Room I Track and Mix in is 10x15 w/ 8'ceiling. Pretty Dead. Carpet floor, R-11 insulation on the ceiling and 60% on the walls. There's some sheet rock on each of the 4 walls to bounce some sound around.
The room is Great for band practice just not sure about recording. I thought by having a small room that's dead and relying on Reverbs would be OK.???.

I have a small piece of plywood that I move around... sit on when doing Accoustic Guitar, put infront of the Kick drum and the Mic sits on it, ect...
I'm thinking of getting two 4x8 sheets of plywood and setting the entire drum set on it and anything else I track.
Or getting something like the MINI-Me.

Aardvarks are supposed to have low jitter and quality Converters... I don't see why my room would effect even close Micing. :confused:
Any thoughts on this situation?
Thanks,
B.
 


My Room I Track and Mix in is 10x15 w/ 8'ceiling. Pretty Dead. Carpet floor, R-11 insulation on the ceiling and 60% on the walls. There's some sheet rock on each of the 4 walls to bounce some sound around.
The room is Great for band practice just not sure about recording. I thought by having a small room that's dead and relying on Reverbs would be OK.???.
B.
Click to expand...


That pretty much answers your own question right there. Some absorption and bass traps are most likely necessary in that case since small rooms have their own inherent troubles, but the biggest offender to your problem is going to be the carpet IMO. Every room that I hear that has low ceilings and carpet sounds muffled in the highs regardless of other surface treatments. I would rather have a concrete floor than carpet in the case you described. Glad to hear you did R-11, it seems to be a lot more broadband than foam, which apparently only effects the highs.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with using artificial reverb for your recordings. The better the reverb, the better the sound. I know for a fact, even guys with huge 7000 sq ft rooms primarily used for symphonic recording use a little 'verb in a box here and there. As long as your room is as flat as it can possibly be, then you are good, if you have a huge bump at a particular frequency it's just headaches. Here are some good links:


http://www.rpginc.com/news/library.htm

http://arts.ucsc.edu/ems/music/tech_background/TE-14/teces_14.html


Nathan Eldred
atlasproaudio.com
 
first i would look at the preamps after the room...if the aardvark are the only pre's you have u def need some new ones...cheap ones that people seem to like would be the DMP3, VTB, and the joe meek(i never heard any of them so i dunno) that <200....if you have more cash you can get into 'high end' pre's like the RNP(500) or the Speck(850) or the grace 101 (500-600).

as far as converters i would say Lynxtwo, Lynxtwo, Lynxtwo

the L22(cheapest one) goes for 600-700 its only 2 channels but BLOWS anything under 1000...even though i haven't heard everything in that price range, i would think its pretty accurate based on this forum cuz everyone loves the delta they think they sound great...so did i till i heard it against the lynxtwo...to make a long story short. it raised my benchmark on what i think sounds good or not...AD/DA wise
 
Damn!!! I just wrote a lengthy reply and lost it in cyber space....
oh well probably for the best...
I just bought a new Sweet accoustic tonight... think I'll go play it some more and go to bed.

In a Nut shell...
Thanks guys for your help. Very much appreciate it.
Think I have a serious Bass/Low end issue w/ my room and better converters and Pre's are in order as well.
Then I'll be the next Mutt Rubin Rock.... I like it! I should change my user name... Booda's pretty lame anyway :)

B.

PS- I didn't really think Bass Traps were needed since only 1 corner of my room has 2 hard surfaces that meet and Bass doesn't consume the room. It's almost like Low end is somewhat cancelled in the perception but accented on Tape, er Hard Drive.
Does that make any sense?
 
Booda said:
Everything needs a Lo cut Hi boost all the time. I am all Software right now (VST 5, Waves Gold, Timeworks,ect...) with a Aardvark Direct Pro for my Preamps and AD/DA.
Click to expand...

An Aardvark Direct Pro acutally has a sort of muffled sound to it. Lo cut and hi boost is a typical way of trying to compensate. But the problem isn't really frequency response, it's more due to the particular nature of whatever distortion the Direct Pro produces. A LynxTWO and better preamps should make a big difference, at least it did in my case.
 
Thanks Mark. I have a Couple questions...
Is the lynx Two Digital mixer the same as the direct pro Controll Panel? Or do you have to use a outboard mixer? I Do like the all in one approach of the Aark... but I'm willing to do what it takes. That's why I'd just like to at least try a MiniMe through my Aarks SPDIF and see how much muffle goes away.
I see the Lynx One has MIDI Does the Lynx Two? There is no mention of it.


Well I have more to Mull over...
I did a Sine Wave test in my room and all was pretty even except at 125Hz. Big Jump. I need to get a Meter of some kind but I was talking w/ my friend and He told me to make some type of Bass trap out of a rubber can (Garbage can like) filled with insulation and put em Outside my Room. He doesn't think My Room holds any low end in, but I told him my House Wall is probably sending it back at the Room. I didn't mention before... The room is a framed room in side a Garage. 3 walls of the garage are just plywood with a couple layers of carpet (yes, I carpeted the whole inside of the garage) the 4th wall being the house. There is 2' between the whole box and Garage walls... The Box is framed with sheet rock on the outside with layers of carpet and the ceiling is just thin plywood again with carpet. The inside of the room has R-11 w/ some sheet rock to give a little frequency . I think the one wall on the House side is what would be sending the Bass back. Is the sheetrock on the outside of the room sending anything back in? My guess would be the 125Hz.

Thanks for the help,
B.
 
Booda said:
Thanks Mark. I have a Couple questions...
Is the lynx Two Digital mixer the same as the direct pro Controll Panel? Or do you have to use a outboard mixer? I Do like the all in one approach of the Aark... but I'm willing to do what it takes. That's why I'd just like to at least try a MiniMe through my Aarks SPDIF and see how much muffle goes away.
I see the Lynx One has MIDI Does the Lynx Two? There is no mention of it.
Click to expand...

The LynxTWO mixer has fewer features than Aardvark's, but I am still able to work with it okay without needing an outboard mixer. There is no built-in headphone amp either, no midi, and of course, no mic preamps. However, the sound quality is far, far better than the Direct Pro -- you will be going from sound quality that is almost unuseably bad with the Direct Pro, to exceptionally good with the Lynx, so long as you get some decent preamps. Really, the difference is pretty dramatic.
 
Cool! So it sounds like to get a small mixer for monitors and headphones wouldn't be a bad idea. Do you have anything that you use with it for MIDI? The only thing I occasionaly use is a Roland Drum kit and a keyboard but it's been months since I have... I could probably get by with out.... Hmmm???

I wonder what the comparison of converters to the RME stuff is... from memory I think it would be about the same cost and w/ the RME you get 8 ins and MIDI... yea, I just checked, this setup w/ pci card is about $1100
http://www.rme-audio.de/english/hdsp/multifa.htm
Thanks,
B.
 
You might want to examine the monitors you're using... if the monitors are 'bright', the product will be 'dull'. If your monitors give you a more realistic picture of what is going on, then you can very possibly compensate for the struggles with the room by employing different microphone selection and placement techniques.

Best of luck.
 
Booda said:
Cool! So it sounds like to get a small mixer for monitors and headphones wouldn't be a bad idea. Do you have anything that you use with it for MIDI?
Click to expand...

For midi, you can probably use the midi port any old sound card or if you motherboard has one built-in, you could use it. Regarding the RME, I haven't had a chance to compare one to the Lynx. However if you're interested, there is a review of the LynxTWO compared to the LynxONE here: http://www.stereotimes.com/acc101502.shtm
 
whoa...that article is interesting...the lynx two ad conversion competes with the HEDD? that's almost unbelievable...too bad nate or fletch aren't dealers of lynx to see if that is in fact the truth...
 
Teacher said:
whoa...that article is interesting...the lynx two ad conversion competes with the HEDD? that's almost unbelievable...too bad nate or fletch aren't dealers of lynx to see if that is in fact the truth...
Click to expand...


The Lynx come highly recommended (even by some other conversion companies often talked about). They seem to be a good company on many levels. I just wish one of these PC computer companies would come out with a motherboard with 8 PCI slots...PCI expanders seem like a cool idea, but I hear they produce excessive latency.

Nathan Eldred
atlasproaudio.com
 
My experience has been that the D/A conversion doesn't seem to be good as the A/D conversion.

I would pretty much think that the A/D in a Lynx or RME product and maybe the better Echo products should be sufficient for most home setups even those producing commercial level releases. I think the real trick sonically is the D/A so adding a Benchmark DAC1 might be the thing.

It'd be an interesting experiment to get a bunch of golden ear people in a room and try out several A/D converters of various price level and then put the playback out through a DAC1. I wonder how it'd turn out.

Steve
www.mojopie.com
 
Fletcher- I have Event 20/20p monitors... I have tried various adjustments w/ the Lo and Hi Trim, ended up just leaving em flat.
Can I assume from your response that you think the Aardvark Converters & Pres are decent and able to put out rich sounding tracks?

Through research and a A/B test w/ my friends Delta 1010 I thought Aardvark were supposed to be in the ball park of MAudio and Echo if not even a little better? I realy like the features and ease of use... their customer support is killer too. Maybe I'm just growing out of it???

I keep bringing up the MIniMe, but no one else seems to be... The other thing cool about it is the ability to have a remote Stereo recording set up (w/ a Laptop and USB).

B.
 
NathanEldred said:
The Lynx come highly recommended (even by some other conversion companies often talked about). They seem to be a good company on many levels. I just wish one of these PC computer companies would come out with a motherboard with 8 PCI slots...PCI expanders seem like a cool idea, but I hear they produce excessive latency.

Nathan Eldred
atlasproaudio.com
Click to expand...

damn...makes me wish i would of bought the lynxtwo w/6inputs instead of the L22....
 
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