D&R Micpre. Anyone used this pre?

malcolm123

malcolm123

New member
Got tired of High Jacking the other thread.

Plus Im curious myself about this pre. Any comments about this pre specifically are welcomed and wanted.

What class does this pre fall in? It looks like some where close to the RNP. Any listening sessions done with this pre? Etc etc.

Im curious has to how it stacks up to budget console pres and stand alone budget pres. IE DMP3, VTB-1, would there be a substantial quality difference?

They say it's transparent. How does it stack up with a Grace 101?

Malcolm
 
I'd send Paul Westbrook this question. He is the US rep for D&R. I had some dealings with Paul many years ago and found him to be a very honest person.

He is in Texas if I remember. Do a search on the web for his companies web site.
 
It appears to be just another mostly transparent solid-stater built around an instrument amp.

Kind of like the other 10,000 or so cheapos out there. Based on that, I would put it more in the DMP-3 territory, maybe even a notch or two below, rather than something like the RNP (which actually has a few ounces of thought and/or innovation to the design).

Unless he's got some other things going on with the design, like the Grace -- maybe he's got film capacitors or point-to-point wiring or got knows? Somehow I doubt it, and my money says it's just a cheapo trying to pass as something better than it really is.
 
chessrock said:
It appears to be just another mostly transparent solid-stater built around an instrument amp.

Kind of like the other 10,000 or so cheapos out there. Based on that, I would put it more in the DMP-3 territory, maybe even a notch or two below, rather than something like the RNP (which actually has a few ounces of thought and/or innovation to the design).

Unless he's got some other things going on with the design, like the Grace -- maybe he's got film capacitors or point-to-point wiring or got knows? Somehow I doubt it, and my money says it's just a cheapo trying to pass as something better than it really is.
Click to expand...


In the class of a DMP3 or lower,,,, for $450.00

Man please !!!!

LOL
 
malcolm123 said:
Got tired of High Jacking the other thread.

Plus Im curious myself about this pre. Any comments about this pre specifically are welcomed and wanted.

What class does this pre fall in? It looks like some where close to the RNP. Any listening sessions done with this pre? Etc etc.

Im curious has to how it stacks up to budget console pres and stand alone budget pres. IE DMP3, VTB-1, would there be a substantial quality difference?

They say it's transparent. How does it stack up with a Grace 101?

Malcolm
Click to expand...

I did read it sounded like a Neve. But, I also read that some chinese mics sound like a Neumann. Put those two together and you will have saved some serious $$$$$

I never heard of D&R until it showed up on this BBS a few days ago by a spammer named PW. I guess we will have to hear all about how great it is and beats all the other pres costing thousands of $$$$ more.....on..........and on.

I would have given it a chance until the guy came in here making frick'in wild claims about how it performs. This is the same M.O as PMI.
 
Re: Re: D&R Micpre. Anyone used this pre?

acorec said:
[ I never heard of D&R until it showed up on this BBS a few days ago by a spammer named PW. I guess we will have to hear all about how great it is and beats all the other pres costing thousands of $$$$ more.....on..........and on.

I would have given it a chance until the guy came in here making frick'in wild claims about how it performs. This is the same M.O as PMI. [/B]
Click to expand...

I'm not affiliated with D&R but as I stated earlier contact Paul Westbrook himself at http://www.softfiles.com/D&R.html.

D&R has been around a lot of years and you will be able to find a lot of their console in a lot of very pro studios. I have recorded many times on their gear in various studios and can only say that they are sweet to work with. If the pre is from their pre amps on their consoles they should definitely be good stuff.
 
Re: Re: Re: D&R Micpre. Anyone used this pre?

David Artis said:
If the pre is from their pre amps on their consoles they should definitely be good stuff.
Click to expand...

Yea, but apparently they're not. PW said they were just a chip in a box with wires.
 
Thats to bad - their console pres are definitely nice.

They (D&R) at one point did make a unit (years ago) that had the same pres that were in their consoles. I have one and it is very nice.
 
D&R Mic Amp

chessrock said:
Yea, but apparently they're not. PW said they were just a chip in a box with wires.
Click to expand...

Well, maybe I misread your question or didn't go into enough detail. Please forgive me. The D&R Mic Amp is a simple dual channel mic pre with incredible specs. I've said in many earlier threads that in a simple test with three sets of ears, we tested the Trident S20, Neve Portico, and D&R. The D&R sounded the same as the Neve when the Neve didn't have the "Silk" switch in. We have yet to try these preamps on anything other than a female gospel singer. I have also said, if you want true reproduction as quiet as it gets with no additives, then you will like the D&R. Actually the Mic Amp has the newest intergrated circuit and any of the new consoles would use the same circuit in the mic pre stage. D&R designers have always put more into the design and layout rather than features.

Maybe you should try one and make up your mind.
 
D&R Mic Pre

chessrock said:
Unless he's got some other things going on with the design, like the Grace -- maybe he's got film capacitors or point-to-point wiring or got knows? Somehow I doubt it, and my money says it's just a cheapo trying to pass as something better than it really is.
Click to expand...

Hey chessrock,
I don't know what the other manufacturers do or use in their mic pre amps. I do know sound and I do know that for the 19 years I've been with D&R, I've had hundreds of customers (now friends) that love the very transparent sound of any D&R console or product. Any good manufacturer will try to get the best specs and sound that is possible with current technology, however, I've worked on and for other console manufacturers that didn't go the the details that the D&R design department does on every product. Most manufacturers like Neve, SSL, ect use the same ICs D&R does. So if they all use the same stuff, why does D&R out of the box have a 300% better phase spec than SSL? It's what you do in the layout and testing that makes the difference.

At the pinnacle of analog console sales, SSL was the leader in sales and hype. You were told that in order to cut hits you need an SSL. SSL made nice big expensive consoles, no doubt, however that didn't mean they were the best in design or sound. Some Nashville guys would spend an extra $30,000.00 on their new SSL to make it sould good. Main reason was.... they had a poor phase spec. When your signal is partially out of phase, it doesn't sound better.
I'm not here to cut SSL. Lord kows D&R will never have the NAME recognition that SSL does. Besides, I have several friends out there still making those big lease payments on their SSL consoles.

Bottom line, I never listen to the hype anymore. I listen to the sound. What that sales guy said doesn't come out of the speaker......... but sound does.
 
D&R Mic Pre

David Artis said:
Thats to bad - their console pres are definitely nice.

They (D&R) at one point did make a unit (years ago) that had the same pres that were in their consoles. I have one and it is very nice.
Click to expand...

Thanks David. As you know..... you can leed them to water but can't force them to drink.

It's been a while. You can email me at prw@softfiles.com or call (903) 485-2535.

Paul
 
D&R Mic Pre

acorec said:
I did read it sounded like a Neve. But, I also read that some chinese mics sound like a Neumann. Put those two together and you will have saved some serious $$$$$

I never heard of D&R until it showed up on this BBS a few days ago by a spammer named PW. I guess we will have to hear all about how great it is and beats all the other pres costing thousands of $$$$ more.....on..........and on.

I would have given it a chance until the guy came in here making frick'in wild claims about how it performs. This is the same M.O as PMI.
Click to expand...

Hi Malcolm,
First I would like to say I'm not a spammer or didn't intend to be. I did apoligize on one thread for bringing up D&R and was told to not worry that the people on this group always wanted to know about new products.

In the past I made a considerable amout of money with D&R but these days I couldn't pay the phone bill from D&R profits. D&R is now designing more to the Digital Broadcast market of which I am not interested. These days sound quality doesn't go very far when you can get all of the "stuff" you could ever dream of in software or the digital domain.

So you will know I'm sincere, I have a studio like many on this group. I use Neve Portico, Trident, ViPRE, Behringer, and yes, D&R for mic pres and Samplitude, RME, Apogee, etc as for Digital. If analog would do even 25% of what digital offers, I would never have changed. I'm just looking for that next best sounding "thing" like everybody else.

I've been in the audio and recording business for more than 40 years and made many of the mistakes you will eventually make in the future. My reason for taking the time to write on this forum is to share the knowledge and learn as well. I'll bet we could both teach each other a few things.

Paul
 
Paul you should be styleing with the Potico and the D&R..Do you have enough color now or are you still lookin for more warmth?
I'd like to hear some sound samples of the D&R..I picked up a Sebatron tube amp nice and warm
 
D&R Mic Pre

mikey@thecave said:
Paul you should be styleing with the Potico and the D&R..Do you have enough color now or are you still lookin for more warmth?
I'd like to hear some sound samples of the D&R..I picked up a Sebatron tube amp nice and warm
Click to expand...

I've worked for several record companies as an engineer but this time I'm spending my money rather than someone elses so before I bought my first mic pre other than the D&R, I talked to friends from coast to coast. Some said the Millinia, some said the ViPRE, some said the Manley, etc.....
I dicided to pay the bucks and get the ViPRE after talking to one of the salesguys at Groovetube. My criteria was it had to be FAT as in BIG as in BIG & FAT!!! He assured me that is was. Several thousand bucks later..... although it was built like a tank and well put together and very heavy..... it just wasn't fat. Then when I went to several of my customers (friends) studios with the MXL mic rep, I had a chance to hear what I was looking for. Out of many studios, a friend of mine named David Donaldson has a home studio in Houston and he had the Neve Portico and Trident S20. He was using ProTools (not my favorite) and a wide selection of mics. When I heard both my MXL mics and his C12 and others in his arsenal, I finnally heard FAT. David recorded several things on Beyonce' Knowles and is a very good mixing engineer. After leaving there, I ordered the Neve Portico and Trident S20. I compared them in my room and then decided to rebuild my live room. The only difference now is I use Toby monitors with a Parasound 2200II power amp and he uses Dynaudio M2 speakers and a Krell KV250 power amp. His amp is GREAT!! My Parasound is also very good. I love the D&R stuff for extreme quiet, very transparent, no additives. I love the Neve with the silk switch in. David says he wonders why they put the "silk" switch in because he has never unswitched it.

Bottom line.... I'm still looking to improve. When I go to the box.... I'll still be searching for ways to make it better. Hey man, I remember owning a wire recorder.... hehe

Paul
 
We recently did a preamp shootout between my D&R console preamps, an API 512c, an OSA A and C module, and my Chandler TG2. Due to time restirctions and some mic comparisons that we did, we only got to do really good tests on Acoustic guitar and kick drum. On acoustic we tried all the pres with an AKG 452 that had a Blue Lollipop capsule. 2 of the 4 of us picked the D&R as our second choice. 3 of us picked the Chandler as #1. On kick 3 of us picked the API (no surprise there), but three of us picked the D&R second, with the Chandler right behind it. The bootm line here is that through testing several nice mics on several different sources the D&R represented itself VERY nicely. At $250 or less a channel, that is pretty impressive. when comparing it to some well known preamps that start at $600 or so a channel. Personally, I don't care of it is a chip based preamp. The bottom line is that it sounds great, even when compared with some excellent options. Personally, I have used the DMP3 and the RNP. I would not put them anywhere near the same class. The D&R preamps seem to have better gain, and are much quieter (noise wise) when you push the gain up past 45 (which you will if you are using ribbons or micing smooth quiet sources). I do agree that the DMP3 performs very well for the money, but the RNP really pushes that value ratio in my opinion. As far as the Grace goes, I think the Grace may be even more transparent, to the point of being nearly sterile. In every situation that I have tried so far I have preferred the D&R by a long shot to the Grace, which is why I sold my Grace some time ago. The D&R is just as clean (if not more so) as far as preamp noise goes, but still seems to add just a little something to a track. I have no doubt though that if I were recording impeccable source signals in an excellent room with great mics etc.... that I may choose the Grace instead.

The real thing here though is that the only people that seem to have negative things to say about D&R seem to be people that have never actually used them. Thos who have, tend to enjoy their experiences with D&R equipment. I am on my second D&R console and even gave brief consideration to the Octagon Paul has for sale on this site, but I just can't afford it right now. I guess I will just have to stick with 96 non moving P&G faders with only 12 aux sends and 24 multitrack busses:D
 
I have not used the new D&R outboard pre but I did install an old D&R series 4000 in my studio this year The D&R Which I am loving.

When I got it restored I did a shoot out with some of my favorite clean pres, the old NTI (nightpro) PreQ 3 which were about $700 a channel new. The D&R pres either tied or barely lost out to the NTI. but the differences were always very subtle. There were no times when the NTI was a lot better and many situations where the D&R was just as good.
 
D&R Mic Pre

Ronan said:
I have not used the new D&R outboard pre but I did install an old D&R series 4000 in my studio this year The D&R Which I am loving.

When I got it restored I did a shoot out with some of my favorite clean pres, the old NTI (nightpro) PreQ 3 which were about $700 a channel new. The D&R pres either tied or barely lost out to the NTI. but the differences were always very subtle. There were no times when the NTI was a lot better and many situations where the D&R was just as good.
Click to expand...
I hear these stories often. The D&R 4000 was designed and built 20 years ago. It (like other D&R products) was a few years ahead of it's time. The current D&R products have the very best technology has to offer. The 4000 was designed before I started at D&R. When I started some 19 years ago, I redesigned the D&R Dayner frame to look and feel more like a studio console. We also balanced everything in & out on the entire line. When the Orion and OrionX was introduced, we completely changed the "look" of all D&R consoles. I was National Sales Manager for Soundtracs prior to going to work for D&R and saw the 4000 at a NAMM show in Anaheim, CA. I could see then that the D&R people were ahead of most other console companies. They weren't the greatest looking console on the block, but they sure had eunique features like floating subgroups and other stuff at the same time sounded quieter and cleaner than anything else I had worked on. I'm also a repair tech and have seen the insides of everything from Fostex to SSL and D&R does the design/component phase correctly. Good luck with your 4000. I just took one in trade and sold it within 30 days.
 
AudioHipster is currently revamping & using a D&R 4000 MKII 1986 era, have to say we like this desk, good clean 3d sound, phase perfect, organic usable EQ, power supply rebuilt strong, no fan or noise we have had a few desks, AMR, DDA Q & DMR12, Amek Recall RN, Studer D950S, the D&R is one lovely well designed desk, highly recommend. We have 4 extra 4000 channels as well if interested, and we are looking for an extra master bus MKII series if anywho has one for sale or trade. we have liked all these desks sonically and still use the Studer D19 pre's, Fyi: the Amek Recall RN was sold to David in the Orlando FL area he built Studio Live, and has tracked & mixed on a J9000 SSL, and even thou the SSL has more bells and options, David sonically likes the sound of the RN Recall Amek 56 ch a bit better, he also choose the Antelope Audio Orion 32 as his interface, David was so impressed using our AH ribbon microphones he has two on his 125 Leslie, Please see our new AudioHipster AH-04 stereo long passive ribbons. Also we are trying to purchase a pair of Amek M2500 or 1000 channels, Karl Diehl at NPNG is going to rack these for us. (BTW Karl has three custom flavors for the NPNG mic pre, IMA the best out there and unbeatable price point, also his new NPNG Diehlio is magical, a must for all studios.) Cheers Doyen
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