Cymbal Heavy Drummer

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dani Pace
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Dani Pace

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I've been trying to record a drummer who is really "heavy handed" especially on cymbals. He plays the edges a lot and the cymbals crash a lot! My problem is he plays the cymbals so hard that they overpower everything else and cause the drum track(s) to clip and distort. I've tried different mics, different placements, EQing, I'm running out of ideas. The guy is a good drummer aside from his overpowering cymbal crashes. Any thoughts or ideas? I've got him to try lighter sticks (didn't help) and to angle the cymbals more but he still manages to use the side of the stick on the rim of the cymbals and create these terrable sounds. I'm open to any ideas so please help me out guys.
 
Basicly, you're screwed. It sounds like he lacks control. I'd recommend thinner cymbals as generally ones for gigging are heavier and tend to produce more nasty overtones than thinner ones that are more fundimental splash. If that's not an option, maybe :eek: duct tape :eek: on the underside of the offending cymbals may help a little but I doubt it. I feel your pain. Been there and done that and it boils down to the drummers control.
 
You are at the mercy of your drummer. Volume control of the total drum kit is what makes a drummer great.

Just like a good sound man(live or in the studio), If you gave that band a final mix and the guitars or vocals were too loud and overppowering im sure they or the crowd wouldnt be happy with you saying "i just cant turn them down"

Have him stand aside while you play his kit. then start crashing the cymbols loudly while lightly hitting the rest of the kit. There should be a balanced overall sound that he hears that is pleasing to the ear just as if the drums were a song by them selves and each drum piece is a different instrument. the kick is the bass guitar, the snare is the lead vocals, the a hihat and cymbols are the guitars ect....you know what i mean,... together they make a song and one being too loud is a bad mix.

If he cant do it, bill him by the hour till he can :) :) :rolleyes:
 
Well, if you can't get him to change his ways, there are three alternatives:

1. Just record him at safe levels and let the chips fall where they may. Tell him "that's how you sound."

2. Close mic the drums and use no overheads.

3. Record him using only a kick mic and a stereo pair from a few feet away.
 
I might suggest recording cymbals and drums seperately.

Have him play just one or the other with the setup that sounds optimal for it then play the other with a new setup.
 
best bet is to get him to hit them not so hard.

what else might work

-close mic everything

-the 3 mic "led zeppelin" setup

-move the cymbals out and away from the kit. so that the drummer can still hit them, but they bleed into the other mics less.

-mic the set using omni's, placing them down low to the ground (so that the cymbals are farther away) and maybe even behind the kit.

just brainstorming.

does the band particularly want the cymbals lower? The drummer would have to be a real ass to argue against hitting them softer. have you tried bringing it up? also - you might try heavier sticks. the cymbals will still be the same volume but hopefully the other drums will increase in volume.
 
+1 to everything above. the guy has crap technique. he needs to punish the cymbals less and hit the drums like a man. :D

see if you can move the cymbals away from him--either up higher or out farther.....make him have to work to hit them. the thought being, if he can't reach them as easily, he won't beat the snot out of em constantly.

but barring that.......like track rat said, you're screwed basically. welcome to the world of recording shitty drummers.....or at least drummers with shitty technique. :p


cheers,
wade
 
Ditto to most everything above. I have found the duct tape on the cymbals to be really effective. Use several layers of drafting tape instead if the drummer whines about the duct tape leaving gunk in the grooves, which is actually detrimental to a cymbals health (Like beating the snot out of it isn't...right???).

Your best bet may be to record with as much headroom as possible, either by using a higher bitrate (i.e. 24-Bit), or by bringing the input volumes down on your mixer, or Pre (However you'll sacrifice quality, with the resulting lower signal-to-noise ratio). If you can't get him to settle down, you can at least try to get him recorded and try and tackle the problem by zeroing in the offending overtone frequency (Or frequencies) with a narrow parametric EQ and a bit of compression.

Also a good "Dope-Slap" to his head might be in order.
 
Try putting the overheads under the toms in the same place you would normaly put the overheads. Just lower. The idea here is to pick up more toms relative to the cymbals than you are going to get with using conventional overheads.

If that doesn't work, try moving them as far away from the kit as you can. Just walk around the room until you find a spot that is as ballanced as you're going to get.

Mic the snare and be prepared to gate it, otherwise the hihats are going to be loud as f***. Make sure you can gate the snare with where you put the snare mic.

My $2.00
 
As you'll notice, most everyone's saying that the drummers got to get his act together or that you need to move the mics...

I'd go with the drummer solution. You said that you've already tried moving the mics around with no success. If I were you I'd tell the drummer to either not play so loud, change to quieter cymbals or get another drummer to do his job for the recording...

Jacob
 
Drummers don't change

Let's assume that the drummer will not change his playing - - -

I've done a few things:

a) Close mic'd the toms from inside or below. Throw a blanket on the bass drum.

b) Mic'd the overheads at waist level in front of the drumset. Usually helps to throw a heavy blanket over the bass drum and make a little 'tunnel' for the BD mic when you low mic...

c) Close mic'd the toms - 1" in and 1" above. Mix in a stereo overhead track from above and behind or out front.

It really helps to have isolation between yourself and the drummer. Also helps to have a helper moving the mics around for you. Hopefully that person has some killer iso headphones on and is listening to your talkback or he/she will end up deaf soon enough.

I am recording a drummer who looks like Kevin James that seriously peaks all of my studio preamps. I played as hard as I dared on the same drums and couldn't peak the preamps, but he does. From downstairs, the whole house shakes and the floor creaks like hell when he plays. He vibrated the room so much he cracked solder joints on my API 312 cards.

He plays these Ziljians and has this Neal Peart ride that must weigh about 50lbs...

It's been a challenge, but a trying the above techniques has helped me get it right.
 
GIGO

I wish there were miracles cures, but it always comes down to GIGO
 
I think part of the problem is that he likes to place the cymbals really high and a lot flatter than I would, this results in a lot of his cymbal hits being on the edges (rims, which is the correct term?) This sounds fine when he is playing live but it is a nightmare to record. Thanks guys.
 
Tell the stupid fucker he sounds like shit. Pound it into his head that he's not playing live, the studio REQUIRES more control. If your not hurting for money to pay the bills, tell the dickheads to get lost because you won't waste your time with idiots.
 
HangDawg said:
Tell the stupid fucker he sounds like shit. Pound it into his head that he's not playing live, the studio REQUIRES more control. If your not hurting for money to pay the bills, tell the dickheads to get lost because you won't waste your time with idiots.
Click to expand...

Wow! Could you come and produce my next CD?

;)
 
Ford Van said:
Wow! Could you come and produce my next CD?

;)
Click to expand...



Sure.


You know ultimately the band is going to blame him because the drum tracks suck when there is little he can do about it. I tell everybody who records with me the truth. If it's the drummers issue, then so be it. If they can't handle it and work with me, fuckem I won't work with them. Simple as that. But, I don't rely on this for feeding my family either. So I can choose to do what I want.
 
northsiderap said:
and has this Neal Peart ride that must weigh about 50lbs...
Click to expand...

yeah, but that sabian paragon ride sounds SOOOOO NICE.......assuming you're looking for that old zildjian A 22in ride sound.

hangdawg said:
the studio REQUIRES more control.
Click to expand...

amen there. most drummers JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND that what works for playing live will NOT work for playing in the studio.

that's why there are a handful of drummers who play on ALL of the pop and country cds.....and why most "artists" have a "touring band" that is separate from their studio set of musicians. most drummers just can't cut it in the studio.

again, welcome to recording drummers with crap technique. :p


cheers,
wade
 
Don't cave- keep experimenting

Dani Pace said:
This sounds fine when he is playing live but it is a nightmare to record. Thanks guys.
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Dani- if his drums sound fine live, I'm assuming you mean they sound well-balanced, then I would try to record him that way. If you mean "miked in a live situation", then recerate that - miking the toms, bass and snare, then maybe one room mike to dial up the cymbals as needed.

If you mean the kit sounds good live w/o mikes, try this: set up two SDCs in X/Y config. and find a sweet spot in front of the kit, my guess would be about waist-high. Add a mike on the kick and you should be good to go.

Another possibility the cymbals sound too loud could be their proximity to walls or a ceiling (especially untreated). in a bigger room it might be easier to get a more balanced sound.

Good luck! -Rez
 
We forgot about...

Hey we forgot to mention drum triggers - - -
 
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