Cyan's Wildcard . . .

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chessrock

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I just noticed that a major debate erumpted a while back, and I didn't even get to take part. :D I gots to be quicker on my toes.

Anyhow, I'd just have a few things I'd like to say about our friend, CyanJaguar's ideas on the "Wildcard" concept.

I like Cyan a lot. He is, in my opinion, one of the more refreshing thinkers on this entire board. With that disclaimer, here are my thoughts on the Wild card:

The radio airwaves are owned by Disney, Clearchannel, and a bunch of rich mormons in Utah.

The so-called "wildcard" is a false reality. A flight of fancy, dreamed up by one guy who bought in to a beautiful little lie, and tried to spread word of his lie to many people, hoping they would understand. I can't fault that guy for trying, ultimately, because, after all, it is lovely and picturesque. But ultimately, it amounts to nothing more than the lie it is.

The Gap and Old Navy tell us what clothes are going to be popular. The Government tells us we're safe and protected. Our parents ultimately determine (often indirectly) who our ideal mate is going to be. Cosmopolitan magazine tells us what is beautiful.

And Clear channel, Bonneville, ABC, Disney, and to a small extent MTV . . . determine what we listen to.

"Wildcard" is merely Cyan-speak for "A song I happen to like," which can be very different for each individual -- Cyan's Wildcard might be Chessrock's Wild "piece of trash that hurts my ears and is a disgrace to humanity" card . . . but ultimately narrowed down by what popular culture tells us we should like.


Remember . . . Air Supply were very popular once, and so were Mili Vanili.
 
Maybe you should give a brief overview of this wildcard concept for those who aren't aware of the original thread.
 
I would assume by "wildcard" we/he/they mean a song that truly hooks you in and the next thing you know you're totally digging it. It's not about the musicianship, it's not about the sound quality, the song just has that IMMEDIATE something that grabs you, forces you to bob your head, sing along with the chorus, etc. :)
 
chessrock said:
I just noticed that a major debate erumpted a while back, and I didn't even get to take part. :D I gots to be quicker on my toes.

>Yeah, buddy!

Anyhow, I'd just have a few things I'd like to say about our friend, CyanJaguar's ideas on the "Wildcard" concept.

I like Cyan a lot. He is, in my opinion, one of the more refreshing thinkers on this entire board. With that disclaimer, here are my thoughts on the Wild card:

The radio airwaves are owned by Disney, Clearchannel, and a bunch of rich mormons in Utah.

>I listen to public radio...

The so-called "wildcard" is a false reality. A flight of fancy, dreamed up by one guy who bought in to a beautiful little lie, and tried to spread word of his lie to many people, hoping they would understand. I can't fault that guy for trying, ultimately, because, after all, it is lovely and picturesque. But ultimately, it amounts to nothing more than the lie it is.

>Genre to genre there are waves of agreement among people as to what they dig. Radio, being as corrupt as it is, probably doesn't reflect it like it used to. Oh--my god. I heard that a couple of the Americal Idol winners have some number 1's right now. Be afraid....be very afraid...

The Gap and Old Navy tell us what clothes are going to be popular. The Government tells us we're safe and protected. Our parents ultimately determine (often indirectly) who our ideal mate is going to be. Cosmopolitan magazine tells us what is beautiful.

>I don't shop those stores, I don't trust the government and I married who I wanted to. Cosmopolitan? Well, I've never seen anything ugly on the cover! :D

And Clear channel, Bonneville, ABC, Disney, and to a small extent MTV . . . determine what we listen to.

"Wildcard" is merely Cyan-speak for "A song I happen to like," which can be very different for each individual -- Cyan's Wildcard might be Chessrock's Wild "piece of trash that hurts my ears and is a disgrace to humanity" card . . . but ultimately narrowed down by what popular culture tells us we should like.

>You may be right, in some cases.


Remember . . . Air Supply were very popular once, and so were Mili Vanili.

>So were the Beatles. Gee, didn't they have a chart topping album recently--without the support of new radio play?
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Re: Re: Cyan's Wildcard . . .

The radio airwaves are owned by Disney, Clearchannel, and a bunch of rich mormons in Utah.

I listen to public radio . . .

. . . and, to a much smaller extent, NPR.

Oh--my god. I heard that a couple of the American Idol winners have some number 1's right now. Be afraid....be very afraid...

. . . which lends a great deal of support to my original point.


The Gap and Old Navy tell us what clothes are going to be popular. The Government tells us we're safe and protected. Our parents ultimately determine (often indirectly) who our ideal mate is going to be. Cosmopolitan magazine tells us what is beautiful.

I don't shop those stores, I don't trust the government and I married who I wanted to.

I'm glad to hear that . . . I don't blame you . . . and I'll bet you $100 she has more than one quality that is, in some way, very similar to your mother.

Cosmopolitan? Well, I've never seen anything ugly on the cover!

Precisely!

Remember . . . Air Supply were very popular once, and so were Mili Vanili.

So were the Beatles. Gee, didn't they have a chart topping album recently--without the support of new radio play?

They've gotten more than their fair share throughout the years.
 
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even though that off topic thread is still on the first page, you felt what you had to say was so important that it deserved it's own thread? :rolleyes:

I think this is what the 1 start rating was made for..


sam w/1..
 
No, I just thought the other one was getting a little too long.

I also would have been far more incline to respond in the last thread were it specifically about the Wildcard, but last I checked, it was originally about nowhereradio.

I think that's what anti-depressents, regular sex, and smiley-faces were made for, grumpy-boy ! ! :D :D Try again when you're in a better mood.
 
I agree with sam....


The front page of the clinic already has one space that's being wasted with and argument... let's not make it two.




And you can think that all our tastes are "programmed" if you like... personally, I think that's a very arrogant statement. Nobody tells me to like what I like. But I know what I like the minute I hear it. That's just the way it is... your anecdotal evidence doesn't mean anything other than the fact that people are fickle and easily influenced. It doesn't mean there isn't such a thing as a wildcard.


WATYF
 
There is such a thing as a wildcard. I've found many and the bite marks on my ass prove it!
 
I thought he used the term 'wildcard' because he didn't know it was already called a 'hook'.
 
WATYF said:
And you can think that all our tastes are "programmed" if you like... personally, I think that's a very arrogant statement. Nobody tells me to like what I like. But I know what I like the minute I hear it.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on that. Like I said, Cyan's Wildcard might be my shitcard. I might think something's the shit while WATYF thinks it's just shit. :D There's no magical chord progression or formula that's going to make something any more special than anything else.

People will like what they like, and popular music just so happens to be liked by a lot of people so as to create a larger market. And I'm sorry if this offends you, WATYF, but what we hear is determined by a small group of people. That's not to say that you're going to like everything they make available for you, but it does mean that your choices have, indeed, been narrowed down by someone else.
 
TexRoadkill said:
I thought he used the term 'wildcard' because he didn't know it was already called a 'hook'.
Click to expand...

Thats what I thought but apparently the "wildcard" is seperate from the hook in many cases.:rolleyes:
 
I think what Cyan was saying is that hook=chorus . . .

where the wildcard can pop up anywhere. Like I've heard some very catchy bridges and verses.

Particularly with the rap and/or R&B guys I've worked with, they'll use "hook" and "chorus" interchangeably. ie - "Take me back to the first hook."

I haven't had anyone tell me "Take me back to the first wildcard" yet . . . since I'm assuming the wildcard could be anywhere in the song (and by my theory, nowhere, because it doesn't even exist anyway).


. . . although, come to think of it, I have had people say things like "Take me back to somewhere in the middle of the song." :D I love those.

Adding even more to the confusion, in a really good song, I might think that the wildcard is definitely in the catchy, infectious beat, so to me, the wildcard might appear throughout the entire song. While someone might think the song is strong despite the cliche' beat, and their wildcard doesn't show up untill the chorus . . . and yet another person might think the song is a total waste of time, so their wildcard appears nowhere.

The chorus, or hook, on the other hand, should be contained within several definite sections of the song . . . whether or not people like it, it's still there . . . usually directly following a bridge, depending on that song's structure.
 
is this thread gonna help somebodys mix out?

who really cares what ones persons' views on music are?

this is about being better at what you do ... not creating senseless unmotivational friction.
 
Look, peabrain . . .

This could be the single most motivational thread you've ever laid eyes on, pal ! :D

What I'm saying is don't worry about whether or not your mixes have the so-called "wildcard" or not. It's a facade. Make your music to the best of your ability. That's real, and that's what matters.

If you can't find motivation in that, then go read one of your self-help books.

Peace
 
chessrock said:
I think what Cyan was saying is that hook=chorus . . .

where the wildcard can pop up anywhere. Like I've heard some very catchy bridges and verses.

Particularly with the rap and/or R&B guys I've worked with, they'll use "hook" and "chorus" interchangeably. ie - "Take me back to the first hook."

I haven't had anyone tell me "Take me back to the first wildcard" yet . . . since I'm assuming the wildcard could be anywhere in the song (and by my theory, nowhere, because it doesn't even exist anyway).
Click to expand...

Then Cyan and most R&B guys are just idiots. The 'hook' is a catchy and easily recognizable riff that literally 'hooks' you into the song. It can occur anywhere in the song but is most common in the chorus or intros.
 
TexRoadkill said:
Then Cyan and most R&B guys are just idiots.
Click to expand...


LOL ! ! :D Your words, not mine. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, though. You may have a point! :D
 
chessrock said:
I agree with you on that. Like I said, Cyan's Wildcard might be my shitcard. I might think something's the shit while WATYF thinks it's just shit. :D There's no magical chord progression or formula that's going to make something any more special than anything else.

People will like what they like, and popular music just so happens to be liked by a lot of people so as to create a larger market. And I'm sorry if this offends you, WATYF, but what we hear is determined by a small group of people. That's not to say that you're going to like everything they make available for you, but it does mean that your choices have, indeed, been narrowed down by someone else.
Click to expand...
Fortunately, I'm much too busy right now to get offended at anything... :p (not that I would have gotten offended anyway... :p)


And I really don't think my choices are limited by anyone. I own almost no CD's. I don't buy popular music. I listen to all kinds of different crap from numerous different sources (one of which is this clinic). But even though that's true... I still know a "hit", when I hear it.... now... does that mean it'll be a "hit" for everyone..? No... of course not... there are no absolutes in music... but.. there are general principles. One of which is that music is an emotional experience... and if you can write something that can evoke emotion from a majority of the people who listen to it, then it will most likely be a hit. This is just one example. But of course there's no formula (as I said in the other thread... which is where these posts should be :p). However, there is such a thing as mass appeal... not because people have been told what to like... but because humans, by nature, react very similarly to certain stimuli... if you can learn to tap into that nature through music... then you can be a millionaire too....
















just like I'm gonna be...



:p







:rolleyes:






:D




WATYF
 
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