Yes Cubase does this and that, but only in the "SX" version which is an overbloated seqeuncer I simply don't need to pay for. Steinberg is in for a surprise, Digital Performer 5 is now available as an upgrade for about $400 US dollars. That's competitive with Cubases junky, clunky software and includes all the features working correctly. I guess they'll have to depend on first time buyers to keep getting sucked in instead of holding onto their current user base. Audio Units are already supported with my current pluggins in DP5, so I'm ready to go. Goodbye VST, proprietary is out now if you haven't heard. How can you f-up a sequencer so badly? Oh, that's it, turn development over to marketing and sales... Anyone else have a kind word for Cubase? Sorry if I offend anyone, but at least I'm sure some comments will be forthcomming.
Cubase SL 3.0: Continues to disappoint
- Thread starter TFranklin
- Start date
I don't understand what exactly it is that you can't do. I run my whole studio around Cubase SX and clients have been very impressed. Just as a reference point, Audio Units is no less proprietary than VST. In fact, VST is probably more of a standard now than audio units. It sounds to me like maybe you just have not learned how to use Cubase properly or effectively. Also, it is an advantage that SL is offered as well as SX. SL isn't crippled or anything, just has fewer options for those who do not need it or can't afford SX. Not only that, but Steinberg has one of the best upgrade paths I have ever seen. It actually turns out to be $1 cheaper to buy SL and upgrade to SX than to buy SX outright. Most companies have a higher markup on upgrades like that.
Out of curiosity....are you running SL on a mac? If so, you may have some issues. Cubase has never been one of the stronger programs on a mac OS.
Out of curiosity....are you running SL on a mac? If so, you may have some issues. Cubase has never been one of the stronger programs on a mac OS.
Cubase SL 2 to SL 3 and Tiger... Upgrade strategy...
Ok, perhaps I was flaming a bit. I wanted to mix audio down with vst's and all applied effects - but only available in SX. I tried to mix the audio down on individual tracks, but was struggling to get that to work properly - and yes I've done it plenty. For now, I am just sending SPDIF out to a burner from my Motu 828 mkii, that way what you hear is what you get. Why is this simple feature crippled in SL? I could care less about 5.1 surround sound and am not paying a premium to turn it on. Ok, so that's why there is SL, but why limit these other features, especially VST features? Granted, AU is apple proprietary, but let's face it, OSX AU and Core midi services beat any implementation on Windows - Just my opinion but Microsoft is not going to be allowed in my studio anytime in the near future. The Cubase help files are filled with references that say "only available in SX". You may not have noticed many of these if you are running SX because Steinberg only advertises the bigger features that are disabled. If I can use VST pluggins in SL, I deserve all the features with the exception of 5.1 surround sound. IMHO SL is crippled to get you to pay for SX. So why do they bother with SL? I feel that I am being forced to pay for a bunch of features just so I can get the few I actually need - a typical software marketing strategy. But all that's my problem, I think I may be headed toward external DSP solutions that provide software interfaces. I'm sure Digital Performer will work well with my motu. Ask any crusty old guy like me, software is great for a sequencer but when it starts to impose limitations on my instruments, especially virtual instruments, it's no help at all. Don't get me wrong, it saves time from the Q80 days - but that worked really well. Thanks for your level headed reply...
Ok, perhaps I was flaming a bit. I wanted to mix audio down with vst's and all applied effects - but only available in SX. I tried to mix the audio down on individual tracks, but was struggling to get that to work properly - and yes I've done it plenty. For now, I am just sending SPDIF out to a burner from my Motu 828 mkii, that way what you hear is what you get. Why is this simple feature crippled in SL? I could care less about 5.1 surround sound and am not paying a premium to turn it on. Ok, so that's why there is SL, but why limit these other features, especially VST features? Granted, AU is apple proprietary, but let's face it, OSX AU and Core midi services beat any implementation on Windows - Just my opinion but Microsoft is not going to be allowed in my studio anytime in the near future. The Cubase help files are filled with references that say "only available in SX". You may not have noticed many of these if you are running SX because Steinberg only advertises the bigger features that are disabled. If I can use VST pluggins in SL, I deserve all the features with the exception of 5.1 surround sound. IMHO SL is crippled to get you to pay for SX. So why do they bother with SL? I feel that I am being forced to pay for a bunch of features just so I can get the few I actually need - a typical software marketing strategy. But all that's my problem, I think I may be headed toward external DSP solutions that provide software interfaces. I'm sure Digital Performer will work well with my motu. Ask any crusty old guy like me, software is great for a sequencer but when it starts to impose limitations on my instruments, especially virtual instruments, it's no help at all. Don't get me wrong, it saves time from the Q80 days - but that worked really well. Thanks for your level headed reply...
mixdown...
Ok, I really didn't clarify, so my bad. When working with audio tracks, I want to apply vst insert effects and mixdown. As you will see below directly from the help file, only SX allows this. Interestingly, I've had an SX user who can't see the limitation and an SE user reply. If SE does this, I really have a lame version. Imagine purchasing effects pluggins and not being able to assign them to an audio channel. Not all of my synths are software based. I just wonder why this feature is not available, I'm not asking for SX extras of any type, just the right to use my own pluggins.
If I'm missing something I would appreciate your feedback, below are the help file references that doucment this limitation in SL. My version of SL is completely legit, paid for, and patched, I'm not running a crack or stolen version. It runs well on Tiger and for the most part gets the job done but this feature disablement is really a bad deal for me.
Adding insert effects to an input bus (Cubase SX only) allows you to record with effects. The effects will become a permanent part of the recorded audio file
Recording with effects (Cubase SX only)
Normally you record the audio signals "dry" and add effects non-destructively during playback. However, Cubase SX also allows you to add effects (and/or EQ) directly while you are recording. This is done by adding insert effects and/or making EQ settings for the input channel in the mixer. Note:
Note: This will make the effects become part of the audio file itself - you cannot change the effect settings after recording.
Plug-ins (Cubase SX only)
All installed effect plug-ins are available separately on the Audio menu. This allows you to apply effects processing to one or several selected events. See Applying plug-ins (Cubase SX only) for more details.
Ok, I really didn't clarify, so my bad. When working with audio tracks, I want to apply vst insert effects and mixdown. As you will see below directly from the help file, only SX allows this. Interestingly, I've had an SX user who can't see the limitation and an SE user reply. If SE does this, I really have a lame version. Imagine purchasing effects pluggins and not being able to assign them to an audio channel. Not all of my synths are software based. I just wonder why this feature is not available, I'm not asking for SX extras of any type, just the right to use my own pluggins.
If I'm missing something I would appreciate your feedback, below are the help file references that doucment this limitation in SL. My version of SL is completely legit, paid for, and patched, I'm not running a crack or stolen version. It runs well on Tiger and for the most part gets the job done but this feature disablement is really a bad deal for me.
Adding insert effects to an input bus (Cubase SX only) allows you to record with effects. The effects will become a permanent part of the recorded audio file
Recording with effects (Cubase SX only)
Normally you record the audio signals "dry" and add effects non-destructively during playback. However, Cubase SX also allows you to add effects (and/or EQ) directly while you are recording. This is done by adding insert effects and/or making EQ settings for the input channel in the mixer. Note:
Note: This will make the effects become part of the audio file itself - you cannot change the effect settings after recording.
Plug-ins (Cubase SX only)
All installed effect plug-ins are available separately on the Audio menu. This allows you to apply effects processing to one or several selected events. See Applying plug-ins (Cubase SX only) for more details.
Halion
New member
Nah man, you just don't know how to do it. All you have to do is solo the track you want to mixdown, set the locators, click File -> Export -> Audio Mixdown and your set. In the mixdown menu, there's also an option to import the mixdown right back into the project, which seems to be what you want. Applying the effects permanently without using this method may be what is described in the manual, but I have SX, and I don't ever do it that way.
There is ofcourse something to say for every software package, but all in all, I can't say one is better than the other. ProTools is a bit handier for audio editing and has TDM support, Logic has more flexibel routing and mixer features plus some decent plugins, Cubase has better midi control and editing features, Digital Performer has some nice filmmusic stuff, and the list goes on...
There is ofcourse something to say for every software package, but all in all, I can't say one is better than the other. ProTools is a bit handier for audio editing and has TDM support, Logic has more flexibel routing and mixer features plus some decent plugins, Cubase has better midi control and editing features, Digital Performer has some nice filmmusic stuff, and the list goes on...
altitude909
Best Advice Ever: RTFM
Are you talking about applying an effect before mixdown? That is a SX feature but any used VST/VSTi will be rendered in the mixdown. If its not, you are doing something wrong
Ok, that has nothing to do with mixdown. This is for the input bus only (i.e record inserts into the track while recording)
This is the "render in place" feature for applying an effect to an audio track so it renders it before mixdown, again it has nothing to do with mixdown.
Cubase always has had this type of workflow (more hearing the track than seeing the waveforms on screen, if that makes any sense) and I know logic and PT users usually just bounce the affected audio to a track but in cubase it is always done at the end and leaves the plugins live. Any plugin thats on during mixdown should be heared in the output file though, which one is giving u problems?
mixdown...
Ok, we I may be getting closer. And I think I was still explaining what I was doing incorrectly.
1. Midi track sends midi to outboard, hardware sampler or synth.
2. Create audio track with input from sampler/synth via mixer.
3. Play midi track, record to audio track.
4. Now that I have audio, apply whatever pluggins via insert...
5. Mixdown again to permanently apply effects to audio track via export method.
Ok, get the audio first knuckle head - otherwise all I have is a midi channel. I'm not sure how I got so screwed up. Thanks everyone for the tips - I'm back on track, so to speak. I formally take back the Cubase slam, it was a user headspace error - just needed to understand the workflow better.
altitude909 said:
Ok, we I may be getting closer. And I think I was still explaining what I was doing incorrectly.
1. Midi track sends midi to outboard, hardware sampler or synth.
2. Create audio track with input from sampler/synth via mixer.
3. Play midi track, record to audio track.
4. Now that I have audio, apply whatever pluggins via insert...
5. Mixdown again to permanently apply effects to audio track via export method.
Ok, get the audio first knuckle head - otherwise all I have is a midi channel. I'm not sure how I got so screwed up. Thanks everyone for the tips - I'm back on track, so to speak. I formally take back the Cubase slam, it was a user headspace error - just needed to understand the workflow better.
altitude909
Best Advice Ever: RTFM
Ok, this is where you are going astray. Each midi device has a audio output under VST instruments in the inspector window, those tracks u can use audio inserts with. You do not need the actual audio rendered to use vsts on midi tracks
vst...
Hmm, that's what I don't see. Under VST instruments I see only Absynth 3 and Pro 53, no references to midi instruments. Maybe this is where there's an SL and SX difference or I have something wrong? Did I get your meaning correct?
Also, I see by your tag lines and name you have some of the old gear everyone used for techno. Just wondered, it can certainly be used for other things. I'm using a Jomox now - basically the same sounds as an 808 and 909 but the interface is a little arcane... thanks
altitude909 said:
Hmm, that's what I don't see. Under VST instruments I see only Absynth 3 and Pro 53, no references to midi instruments. Maybe this is where there's an SL and SX difference or I have something wrong? Did I get your meaning correct?
Also, I see by your tag lines and name you have some of the old gear everyone used for techno. Just wondered, it can certainly be used for other things. I'm using a Jomox now - basically the same sounds as an 808 and 909 but the interface is a little arcane... thanks
altitude909
Best Advice Ever: RTFM
Midi and audio output
Ok, per the attached png, I have the vst with associated midi channel and audio output.
No problems there. Now, what if I wanted to do this...
1. Midi channel is assigned to hardware, outboard sampler - yamaha A4000
2. The midi output must be assigned to a midi channel so the notation is sent via midi to the A4000.
3. In this scenario, only the "midi effects" are available as an insert.
4. So, I mix down the A4000 midi track to audio, then add effects to the audio track- which seems to work well when in this situation.
So, my solution is 2 solutions. Your instructions for vst-midi tracks, and audio mixdown for outboard gear that is midi controlled. I think that gets me squared away pretty well. Let me know if I'm still missing something, being a musician is one thing but learning the technology as applied to music production is quite another ---- as I'm finding out. Again, many thanks for your help.
Ok, per the attached png, I have the vst with associated midi channel and audio output.
No problems there. Now, what if I wanted to do this...
1. Midi channel is assigned to hardware, outboard sampler - yamaha A4000
2. The midi output must be assigned to a midi channel so the notation is sent via midi to the A4000.
3. In this scenario, only the "midi effects" are available as an insert.
4. So, I mix down the A4000 midi track to audio, then add effects to the audio track- which seems to work well when in this situation.
So, my solution is 2 solutions. Your instructions for vst-midi tracks, and audio mixdown for outboard gear that is midi controlled. I think that gets me squared away pretty well. Let me know if I'm still missing something, being a musician is one thing but learning the technology as applied to music production is quite another ---- as I'm finding out. Again, many thanks for your help.
Attachments
altitude909
Best Advice Ever: RTFM
For outboard gear you will need to make an audio track, route the audio outs of said gear back into cubase and thats it, then you can apply normal VST plugs (u can either record it at this point or just monitor it to use the effects as your playing)
Thats because you know Vegas and Sonar better. Throughout the years I have gotten fairly familiar with most of the apps. Persoanlly, I find Cubase/Nuendo to be MUCH more natural and flowing than Vegas, Sonar, Audition etc... Cubase is much easier to learn if you think of it as a full studio with signal flow and less like a software application.
noisedude
New member
See, I totally disagree. I think the routing is MUCH more hardware-like in both Vegas and Sonar. Setting up groups in Cubase is a complete faff! Oh, and I started out with VST 5.0 so technically my grounding is in Cubase!xstatic said:
I do hate Audition more than any of the others though.
noisedude said:If it's any consolation, I really can't figure Cubase out. I just spent a week mixing in SX 3.0 and could've done the same in half the time in Vegas or Sonar.
I am a bit of a software 'tard though ... it's not a problem with the software, just with me.
yeah what Xtatic said,
I went from pro tools to cubase sl3 ...the work flow is very different it takes time to learn everything right,and yes i was banging my head against the wall for first few months but after i got used to it,nothing can replace it.
It does have some things that dont flow with the project at first,but once u get used to it you will like it more than anything out there
Have fun!
"The succes is not a destination,its a ....bloody jurney"