CPU redlining

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Rusty K

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Hey people,

A problem. I have 700hz Duron, 256MRam. I have eight tracks with no more than three effects per track, some not that much, and my CPU is bouncing in the red. All running programs were closed when the redline occured. I restarted and it was still the same and that is with all running programs back up. Running programs doesn't seem to make a difference.

I am now going to defrag to see if that makes a difference but I really need to see what is eating all my CPU. Surely with my system 8 tracks shouldn't make it crap out.

Help!

Rusty K
 
Actually thats alot of effects to be running....are you getting any stuttering?....

if you are using any commom effects, such as the same reverb on guitar,snare,etc, you can use an auxillary channel and that way cut it down to just one effect.....

or if there are some tracks you know you wont need to change the effects parameters on, you can process the track and save it and take the effect off of that track...just remember to save a copy of the original....
 
Gidge,

Yes if it redlines over 90% it stutters. I hadn't thought of the aux. channel. I think I can do that for sure but I'll have to bone up on just how.

I didn't quite understand though what you meant about processing, saving a track and then taking the effect off. Sorry.

As usual thanks for your helpful advice.

Rusty K
 
Mixdown and slow Computer

Sorry to butt in, basically you mix down a few tracks, which you are finished with and use the mixed down track as a new track, on which you will not need to apply effects again, as n-Track will apply effects as the mixdown happens. this should conserve your CPU resources better.

Now here's the thing, I run a Duron 750 with 256 RAM, and it's not yet gone above 40% resources, though admittedly I use max 5 tracks with very few effects. I'm not really sure you should be getting such high CPU consumption. What soundcard are you using? If the soundcar does not have any hardware accelaration enabled, the CPU does all the processing, which might be the problem.

You need a couple of checks. First, check the soundcard and the driver version. Check the soundcard manufacturer's site. Are your drivers the very latest? You get the first by Control Panel->System->Device manager. Select the 'Sound, video and game controllers' option, and double click on your soundcard name. In the applet window that comes up, click on 'Driver file details'.

Second, check if sound accelaration is enabled. Get the 'Run' command on the start menu and type in 'Dxdiag' (98, 98SE, ME) or 'Dxinfo' (Win95). Check the 'Sound' tab and check the slider for Accelaration is pushe all the way to the right. My bet is your computer will pass both the checks, as your system seems fairly new.

Next, look for device conflicts or other problems. Look up the System information tool (found in 'Accessories') in the Accesories folder in your 'start' menu. Locate 'Problem devices'. If any, try reinstalling the drivers or switching cards around in their slots.

Now, check what input/output devices n-track is using. In the program, Get the preferences menu screen and get the 'Wave devices menu. You will probably see about 10 or so devices (click 'advanced' and check all the boxes). Check which devices have a '1' against them, these will be the input device. 'Wave Mapper' I think is a software mapper and is the most-resource hungry of all inputs. should be avoided. If you have ASIO drivers and a compatible soundcard, this is probably the most stable option.

In case your soundcard is not ASIO-enabled, the hardware device is probably your best bet, this is the option that is just the name of your soundcard without a 'DS' in front of it. If you don't get this option you are probably running with old drivers or a very old soundcard that you might be better off replacing.

How are other apps running on your PC? Games are resource hogs, so slow playing games will be an indication of problems in the memory or hard disk subsystem. Not good for the CPU. Oh, and all RAM is not the same. 256 MB of 133 Mhz geeric RAM is no go for audio processing, get PC2100 RAM at least.

A few more details on the system would help:

Windows version
Soundcard and driver date
Whether driver is certified for DirectX operation (DxDiag/DxInfo will tell you this)
Motherboard/chipset (ask the peole who sold you the PC)
Motherboard driver date
Other peripherals connected to the system

Whew!

Sang
 
Sangram,

There is no such thing as "butt-in" around here. It's an open forum and believe me your input is greatly appreciated.

I'm running a Lynx One 24bit card. It too seemed to be just fine until just the last couple of weeks when I noticed the CPU seemed to be taxed much more than seemed normal.

I've printed your help suggestions and will get right on it and report back as soon as I can.

Thanks man.

Rusty K

PS. Oh yes I've been neglecting the N-track manual but I just printed it as well and will get right to the "grouping" section.
 
Agreed that theres no such thing as butting in.....

what you described Sangram is submixing and is a good idea also...but with N-Track you can take one track that you have effects on, process it destructively which means the wave file will now be processed....you can then pull the DX effect off, therefore removing some load from the CPU....

go in the help file under effects....you see there how to use auxillary channels.....also see "destructive wave file processing"......

usually I set up 2 reverbs (different settings), 2 compressions (a mild and a slammer) and then a limiter on the master channel.....you may need more or less but by routing individual tracks thru them your CPU meter will be much happier....and with each track you can individually adjust how much of the effect you want to apply to it....its really cool.....
 
Gidge,

Yes I think you have it. I went through all of Sangram's checklist and didn't find anything out of whack. Last night I rendered some of my tracks and my CPU usage was cut almost in half. I guess I just learned the limitations of my system. I'll employ the CPU saving suggestions from now on.


Thanks for all the help.

Rusty K

PS...I'm posting a link to my latest, in the mp3 clinic for anyone with some time to give it a listen and critique.
 
90% CPU usage from 8 tracks with 1-3 effects per track sounds right to me. Kinda depends on the effects though.

I usually start applying effects destructively when my CPU becomes over-taxed. I first make a backup of the tracks of course. This works fairly well, though a tad bit annoying.

Also, you might consider *why* you've got 1-3 effects per track. :)

Slackmaster 2000
 
Slack,

Well I guess the *why* is that's where I am on the learning curve. I've found that a little eq usually helps on most anything, not always but quite often. Also compression....some...not a lot and not on certain instruments. Then there's verb or whatever.

But If you meant that I should be consolidating some of those effects on a aux channel then .....I promise I will from now on.

Also I've never used the "destructive processing" because I've been going back and revising my mixes so much, learning more in the process, I just never thought it would be wise. I do back all my tracks.

I have learned that some processing will eventually be close to the same on any given song. Like my vocals....I'm pretty sure that the eq that works best on my voice will be a constant unless I'm experimenting with a vastly different voc. sound. I would think the same would be true for my acoustic guitar. Once I get that baby "singing" then I will want to revisit that particular process again and again.

Thanks as always,

Rusty K
 
Running 1-3 effects per track is normal. You will usualy want to give each track its own Compression and EQ. Reverb does make sense to put on a master channel.

Are you using win2K? I've seen some people complain that DX plugins are cpu hungry on ntrack with win2K. If I remember right, when I switched from 98 to 2K, I was able to run fewer plugins - though stability improved dramaticly.


sub-mixing is a pain in the ass. Don't do it unless you have to.
 
Well, I would argue that compression on each track is not nearly as desirable as recording solid dynamics in the first place, or using compression on instruments PRIOR to them hitting the hard drive....but we don't need to argue :)

Are you using the built in per-track EQ that n-Track offers? It's certainly decent enough....I don't usually count it when I count up total effects either because it's pretty easy on the CPU.

I still think that he's hitting a normal redline with the effects though. It really depends on which effects your using. I've got one reverb that sucks 30% of my CPU on its own, while others take only 3-5%. Unfortuanately, you can probably guess which one sounds better :)

Using Aux channels can help a bit, especially for things like reverb where you don't necessarily want 10 different reverb sounds on 10 different tracks. However, you'll find yourself wanting to add effects individually to tracks in most cases. Don't be afraid of destructive editing...as long as a) you have a good idea of what kind of sound you're after and b) you backup the original, you should be just fine.

As an aside, it's also fun to use Aux channels creatively. It's fun to send draw send-to-aux envelopes and send portions of tracks out to various effects dynamically.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Slack,

I have found that limiting my vocals going in helps the most. After that no compression till master. Damn....would you still say that I should use compression going in if I said my only outboard was a nanocompressor? If the answer is yes then what about on the bass?

I've so far discounted the built in track eq but if you say so I'll give it a try.

Yes my best reverb requires stereo tracks.

I'm totally in the dark about aux channels but I'm getting there, slowly, kind of like a timid turtle.

Thanks,

Rusty K
 
This is a little bit off topic, but what are your 'best' reverbs?
 
I run a very modest system(celeron533,196pc100sdram,30 gig
7200 maxtor hd,ensonic pci soundcard,abit be-6mobo)for me,3
effects,realtime per track is unthinkably ambitious.But just a
thought,if you will.Back when I was using a Roland vs840,I
happened to borrow, from my father in law the CD collection of
"The Beatles Anthology".While listening,and reading the liner
notes,I realised just how much these guys(w/the brilliant direction
of George Martin)accomplished through proper planning,tracking
and BOUNCING!!!Granted,the didn't always make the right decisions reguarding the stereo field(an understatement),They HAD TO MAKE DECICIONS!Those of us w/ limited resources have
to do the same thing.Find that great reverb/chorus/delay/eq
setting,render it into a new track(or the whole rhythm section
for that matter)and see how it works out.It may not be the ideal
that we all continue to strive for,but you can still get some great
mixes with this philosophy!30 yrs ago,when a lot of the great music of our times was made,it was the only way to multitrack!!!
USE WHAT YOU'VE GOT,AND DON'T BE AFRAID TO MAKE DECISIONS!!!!
 
bdemenil,

Sorry to have taken so long to respond...I saw your post a couple of days back but was too busy at that moment to respond.

I use Timeworks Reverb 4080L. I'm no expert but it sounds great to my ear. It does however require a stereo track.

beezelbubba,

Ah...another George Martin fan...hello brother.

I'm already making the adjustments you alluded to. This all turned out to be my first encounter with the limitations of my system. I had been using no resource saving shortcuts till now.

Thanks,

Rusty K
 
Hi guys...

Of course another thing you can do is to apply your effects off-line.

If I determine that a track needs Compression or EQ, I bounce over to SoundForge5 and apply it there (and yes you should save a copy of the original just in case you want to go back to it.)
 
Just an update....

I upgraded to a 1Ghz AMD Thunderbird, I had to replace the mother board as well. The last time my puter goes to these techs. It took them 10 days 3 crashes and returns for them to figure out that I needed a new motherboard...but that's another story.

System generally runs much smoother now, hasn't frozen once knock on wood, though I'm unable to record with NTrack due to wild skipping. Some during playback but mostly when I try recording.

The CPU usage is way down....at least 20% on the same 8tracks with multiple effects and I'm working on another song with 11 track so far (not as many effects) and the CPU usage stays under 50%.

I'm happy with the upgrade if I could just %$#@ing record!

Thanks,
Rusty K
 
"I'm unable to record with NTrack due to wild skipping. Some during playback but mostly when I try recording. "

-maybe you forgot to change the program priority in preferences. I always forget when I re-install.

Ben
 
bdemenil,

It's at the default setting "normal" which is where it has always been as far a I know having never changed it.

I looked at it but since it was the default setting I figured it was where it was supposed to be.

What do you suggest?

RK

P.S. I just tried "high" and "highest" with no positive effect.
 
I keep mine on highest, with high priority dsp thread also checked. Does the skipping occur when you move windows around or interact with the program, or does it occur even when you're not touching anything? How many tracks do you run before it starts to skip? The other answer is that it could be some kind of disk I/O problem, or some issue with your buffer settings. I use a 1.2 gig Athalon, and have no problems.
 
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